Karaoke Forums

So you would equate a stage in a public venue that serves alcohol with a dressing room in a department store or a locker room in a health club?

I wouldn't.

Anyone else?

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Never the same show twice!

Of course not. There's no reasonable expectation of privacy if you are performing ON STAGE. However, just because the KJ is operating equipment does not relinquish their right to privacy of where they purchased the equipment, how much they paid, who made the equipment or anything else. It's simply private. Whether or not the establishment serves alcohol or not is irrelevant.

My point is that you somehow believe that just because a person does karaoke for money (the commercial enterprise) that they've somehow forfeited any/all rights to privacy.

I think that's a useless argument, because you don't "lose any rights" however, (and as you have, IMHO) you can sign them away.

I don't lose any rights because I've purchased a product, especially from the manufacturer of that product - ever.

Let me ask you this: If an auditor from SC shows up (making an appointment a week in advance) to audit you again... just to make sure that things are still cool with you - and asks for your business accounting records, do you simply hand them over? Do you refuse?

Are those accounting records which you keep in the normal course of business private?

You're asserting that you lose those rights to privacy when you are engaged in a commercial enterprise right?

Can anyone else request to see them?

Can we all see SC's licenses? They're a commercial enterprise and the licensing certainly affects the cash-paying KJ's in terms of legal exposure from a publisher.

When do your relinquished rights suddenly reappear?

OK so why would you equate a stage in a public venue that serves alcohol with a dressing room in a department or a locker room in a health club?

To answer your question NO I wouldn't. Are you doing a gig in a department store dressing room or a locker room?

This topic is going south somewere off track! I thought we were Discussing "Lawsuit Started In Washington"

did anyone read my last post at all????

"Does anybody know if the news channels have already been contacted to cover this story yet to see what is going on up in seattle?"

Does anyone know what the word is on the street up in seattle is? I have people here in Portland, Oregon wondering what is happening? whats next? what is going on with the KJ's are they losing there jobs? how about the Venue's whats there reaction?


It's been pretty quiet!!!!

Thanks BigMike for getting the thread back on track.

I'm not in your area but have been following these lawsuits all over the country since the first one 2 years ago.

As far as Washington State, it is still very new & it can take a while for the defendants to get served so it would be hard to say what the reaction may be.

Summons were issued 7/5/11 ~ Here's a link to Docket texts: http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/trad ... c/summary/

As far as the media, you may want to contact them to look into it. There is a member here who did just that when the Tennessee suits were filed and they sent a news crew out to his show which appeared on their newscast.

Perhaps someone local in the Washington area will chime in. There are many KS members in the region.

I hope you get your answers.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Either situation brings to mind that the person in question would be totally exposed. I have often equated singing in public as removing your garments, your talent or lack there of will quickly come to light. If everyone were so anxious to see everything, why are bars so dark? Of course until quitting time when they put on the lights, and you actually see who you have been drinking with all night! Sort of like doing business with these manus.

Wall of Sound you failed to mention that the news crew wrongfully painted a disc-based karaoke host and venue as pirates because of this "tip." Because the "investigator" walked in, saw a CAVs machine and walked out not during a karaoke show. The manufacturer had already filed a lawsuit against the venue by this time.

The news station then had to go out and film the karaoke host along an venue owner with a lovely retraction.

The investigative techniques of this manufacturer has a lot to be desired.... in my opinion.

Mike,

Lonnie is in that area, I am sure he will report as soon as he sees any changes.

I do know that it takes a while for the "reaction" to start happening , here in VA it took almost a year before anyone started to see anything other than a few of those named trying to put out bad press on Sound Choice for filing against them, others silently settled or were audited and released. There was no earthquake and hundreds of venues did not stop doing karaoke as predicted. Huge libraries suddenly shrank from 150,000 songs down to 12,000, 8,000 even 2,500 songs. one I know of went from 150,000 song computer systems to 2500 song disc systems in a years time. We had some that went from having every SC song ever made to claiming that they would no longer play any Sound Choice material, some of those same KJs are now saying they will no longer play any SC or CB material.

So yes it does have an effect but not detrimental to the legal KJ.

Mike,
What Thunder failed to mention is that there are KJ's (like me... I think... ask athena) that have eliminated SC and CB from their library entirely... with NO (repeat: "no") ill effects. They haven't lost crowds because of it or anything else.

Your business is NOT dependent on any brand(s) of karaoke disc. If you feel it is, then it's the discs that have the talent, not the host - they just have equipment.

in my opinion.

My cousin works as a bartender at one of the clubs. She sent out an email to all her friends letting them know there is a full time hosting/kj job that is available. I asked her about the lawsuits and if they were cleared up and kind of filled her in & showed her the documents - she was stunned and didn't even know anything about it nor why the other kj left but knows they use computer & have mostly Sound Choice songs.
One club is about 1 mile from my house. I know they have advertised being able to download on the fly using PCDJ (bought via Sound Choice website link supposedly) & venuekj which are supposed to work hand in hand for 'commercial' use (although don't understand how since all the venuekj songs are Karaoke Channel). What else they do I have no idea. A couple others named I do not know personally, i've only heard the names and an occasional ad that talks about their 100-300K libraries.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Thanks Lonman for the first hand information. Did your cousin say when the KJ left? Before or after the lawsuit was filed?

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

No we were only talking via text and didn't really get into the kj - just didn't want her to consider talking any of the nights until they got cleared up since she has kj'd in the past.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I do remember the opposite when disc based kj's would got 2,500-5K songs to over 50K or more overnight when they went computer.
I would love to see these guys go back down to these original levels. It would definitely put a selection like mine that has been built up disc by disc nearly 20 years to someone that would have to nearly restart from scratch in comparison - even with the GEM series. The HDMP would be a heavier compete, but still know they'd have to buy each song purchased just like I do!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Same here Lon I remember quite a few kj's in my area that went from a few thousand songs to 50K-100K or better from one show to thier next. I have been buying discs for well over 15-16 years now I don't even want to add up what they have cost me over the years. I only wish all the other hosts would have to put out the same amount of capitol as the rest of us have.

It was apparantly before the filing - they've had fill in hosts for a couple weeks. According to my cuz, the host was kind of a gold digger & found a man that will 'support' her and wanted to quit working altogether.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It is much easier to tell if the songs came off of the KJMP HD because there is a serial number imbedded in the graphics.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Not quite, MtnKaraoke.

While your statement may hold true in regard to duly authorized agencies, it does not hold water for a little privately held company that happens to make a lot of noise.

It most certainly IS an invasion of privacy, as well as a demand for time and energy from another company without being willing to compensate the KJs company for it.

PLUS the double standard and absolute gall to demand that THEY be paid for inconveniencing the KJ's company.

In ADDITION, they attempt to enforce this with intimidation of the uneducated KJ. Not only that, but make a high rate of errors while doing so due to be a lack of verified information about the KJs.

Unbelievably after all of THAT is said and done, the only thing received by the KJ is that this one little company that hasn't produced new karaoke in years says that THEY might not sue said KJ.

SC blew their wad through what seems to be bad managerial decisions, while other companies continue to produce. That's THEIR problem, not mine. No one owes them anything, ESPECIALLY private access.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

That's great Danny. Can that same serial number be used to determine how much CB owes each publisher for the additional songs they sold? This is like pressing a disc; publishers license based on a number of copies to be sold, like 5,000 for example.

How would CB do this kind of accounting to pay the right publisher the right amount? They can't.

All they have are "purchased credits" used to unlock songs don't they? CB didn't "sell" the songs with the drive, they are sold individually and with no way of tracking. How do the companies like Tricerasoft pay for the music they sell through downloads? Is it simply a "trust me" kind of deal?

Looks like another way fudge the numbers doesn't it?

(in my opinion of course)

I agree totally with Joe, why should hosts be required to pony up for Sound Choice's bad managerial decisions. Their hands are not clean and have been in the past found, to run afoul of the copyright laws themselves. They cannot claim the morale high ground, I doubt if there are many in this industry that can. Every host should protect their 4th amendment rights, and think at least about boycotting Sound Choice products like I have done for the last 2 years. All said they were opposed to a bail out of the manus, by paying all these fees, isn't that what they are asking us to do?

Fine, boycott their products. Therefore you won't have to worry about obtaining their permission to copy their products. therefore you won't have to pay them anything to get the permission. Therefore you can stop bleating like a lost sheep about them charging you for granting the permission to copy their products. And we can all bask in the knowledge that the dead horse will have some relief from it's incessant beating!