Karaoke Forums

Ok, I've been studying my tail off learning all about pro audio. I'm getting a little overwhelmed so I thought I'd ask the people who know.

I have a SoundCraft Compact 10 mixer and have 4 mic inputs (6 stereo inputs). I have a Peavey Twin DeltaFex effects processor (same as the DeltaFex, but two of them on a 1U unit). I understand using the inserts on the mixer to connect up the DeltaFex. But here's where I start wondering....

Since I normally only use 3 mics - 2 on the floor, a 3rd for me which I hand over for 'group' singing - do I limit myself to only using the DeltaFex as 2 mono channels or hook up my 3rd mic as the right channel w/ mics 1/3 sharing settings (and potentially 2/4 when/if I hook up a 4th mic). Both mics being used at the same time would be an exception - not the rule. It does limit my ability to individually provide effects to each person when all mics are in use but I'm just wanting some feedback on pro's and con's that I may not see right now.

If I really need to I'd likely add the Peavey Dual DeltaFex unit when it comes out if I can't find another Twin.

I'm considering adding an EQ (that would go on the send/return loop) and am looking at the dbx 1231 , a pair of dbx 131's, or a pair of the Peavey Q1311's. Would you recommend any of these over the others or recommend another direction/manufacturer altogether?

I'm also looking at compressors. The main thing I want to verify is that I'd need to put a compressor on each of the mic channels (my understanding is that I would). The biggest problem I have is I have a great singer up with good mic control and the next person is a screamer. It never fails to clip and I've sometimes had to turn the mic almost completely off to keep them from overdriving the mic (grab a mic around the bottom of the screen and try screaming out Du Hast as loud as you can - get the picture?). Based on what I've read a compressor would help to resolve this problem. I'd be looking at something with minimal adjustments needed once the show was up and running if possible.

FYI - Nearly every show I do I plug into an existing powered speaker set up in the clubn - usually 4 JBL Eons, or a couple Mackie SRM450's. I usually hook my PD-250 to act as the monitors.

If I haven't been clear on anything let me know and I'll do my best to answer any questions you might have.

Unfortunately, the Compact 10 is designed to be more of a recording board than a live board. Normally you would hook an effects processor via the Aux sends so that all the channels you'd want to have the effect on, could & you wouldn't be limited.
Your board doesn't have Aux sends so you will be limited to the 2 channels on the deltafex at any given time & it may become a pain in the butt having to switch the mics. Problem here is that most stereo effect processors give 2 different sounding effects on each channel so both your mics may not get the same signal at the same time. 1 might get more of a reverb while the other gets more of a delay. You really are spending more than you need to if you end up buying another delta unit. You may seriously want to reconsider trading in your board for something that is designed for live situations (which karaoke is). Then you could send the as many mics to the 1 unit you already have without having to buy another effects processor. From what you want you will end up buying WAY more than you need to. The PD250 as monitors are fine.
With the eq's, i'm not quite sure what you are asking here. Do you want to add eq's to each mic? This is really not needed & would be a wasted expense. 1 dbx 1231 on your main outputs would be a good choice.
With the compressors, this is where you would want 1 channel per mic. 4 mics=2 dual channel compressors. It's not a cure all, but will help, you will still need to ride the fader a bit, just not as harshly - provided it's set-up correctly. Compressors will (at least should be) need to be adjusted per each singer, not by much, but subtle adjustments in the threshold & ratio settings. Since not all singers are the same, this is the reason for that.

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Re: the mixer
I bought the Compact 10 because I plan to do some simple recording at home and it had the high number of stereo inputs I needed (it was also available locally when I needed a board right away). I'm seriously considering moving to the Onyx 1620 now that it's out. I'm waiting for one to come to the local shop so I can take a look at it before dropping the cash though.

Re: Eq's
I plan to use a single stereo eq on the main outs w/ possibly adding one on the monitors in the future. Where I listed some of the eq's in pairs they appeared to be a single channel eq but I could have been wrong.

Re: the effects processor
I was under the impression that the effects would only be applied to the mics where the music should probably not have effects applied (dont' know why, but I was). But now that I think about it and read your explanation- it does make more sense to apply the effects to the entire signal instead of each channel seperately. BTW, the Twin DeltaFex I picked up for $56. I just couldn't pass it up at that price.

Re: The compressors
Ok, that's what I thought. I know you're a fan of the dbx 266xl, however I am considering the PreSonus 4 channel CL44 to cut down on the rack space. Pros/cons of this unit over the dbx 266xl's?

I know it's a lot of questions but I can't find anyone locally that isn't either an idiot (what's an insert cable?) or insisting I should be using Neumann mics.

No I think you misunderstood. On mixer that are designed for live use, they usually have an "Aux Send" on each channel. You effects would hook up via an Aux send/return section - this is not an insert on a channel. This will allow you to have effects on 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 etc .... individually & would be able to adjust each channels amount of effect individually - with 1 processor. You would not stick it anywhere for the entire mix - unless this is specifically what you were intending to do, but I don't think that is what you want as you wouldn't be able to adjust for a specific mic & the music would be getting all of the effect that the mics would be getting. Which is why I stated that the Soundcraft board you have isn't really designed to be used as a live board - even in Soundcraft own description, it states mainly recording applications only.
The Mackie Onys 1620 is also heavily desinged for computer recording but it will work just as easily in a live situation as well - plus has a MUCH nicer eq per channel with a 4 band eq (high, high-mid, low-mid, low with a sweepable high mid & low mid) - very nice, this is just shy of the same eq they use in their 32*8 buss recording board! It also contains a built in "mini" meter bridge so you can see the levels of each channel while they are playing & know before they hit the clip light - most miser just have a clip light & you don't know how hot your signal is until it's too late. Another thing that is nice is that if you are using a stereo effect processor it has 4 "stereo" returns per send as opposed to 4 mono returns.
There are a couple of features on it you would never use live, but this is looking like the board to beat.

Dang I never really looked at this board before, I may have to drop my CFX12 & do an upgrade as well!

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The Onyx line has only been out for about 3-4 weeks. I was looking for a board to do some mixing/recording at home and stumbled on it. The Onyx 1640 isn't out yet but it looks like it would be overkill for any application I'd ever use it for in the remotely near future (but a VERY sweet board nonetheless). I'm pretty sure I'd also be in way over my head.

Re: The effects and aux send/return
Ahhh.... I did misunderstand. It's getting much clearer now though. I looked at the CFX-12 mixer manual to see what you meant. I think what I didn't fully understand was the difference between the types of effects. I haven't seen use of the term serial and parallel effects which makes much more sense. A serial effect like the compressor which only returns the effected sound is plugged in using inserts while the parallel effects (most delay type effects) would be done with Aux send/returns because they use both the original signal and the effect.

If you pick up the 1620 let me know. I'm interested to get feedback from someone that has used it (hard to do since it's so new).