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Doesn't matter. They'll recoup it alright.... in a "reverse auction" for clubs. It's just another "cost of doing business and being certified" isn't it? You are all for that right?... $125/year for SC, $199/year for CB and so on... on top of buying their stuff... that's a free ride for who?...

If a pirate can get 1 night a WEEK - it's paid for. AND they're "certified" and now have all the same "credentials" as anyone else that SC is now squeezing for audit fees.

Dollars-to-donuts bet you that SC will NEVER go back and check anyone who is currently paying on their finance plan... Why would they risk interrupting a perfectly good income stream?

good point with the math Lon.
but to make it accurate, they only get the 4200 song set for $7500.00
that makes 280 discs
for a price of $26.78 per disc
part of the settlement is removing all tracks they do not have discs for, and if they get caught again, yup, they lose the GEM, and get sued for breach of contract among other charges. it makes a good setup for the future.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Your information is wrong. Annual fees are not that much after the initial audit costs.

You can call both manu's to get the facts.

Sound Choice: 1-800-788-4487

Chartbuster: 1-800-347-5504

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

[quote="MtnKaraoke"]

What exactly do you mean by "bend my knee"? There is a vast difference between what I think you mean: to submit, and what I believe it is that I am doing. I believe that I am cooperating. The net result of that cooperation is that I am free to run my business and use SC's (and CB's) product without fear of reprisal. I don't have any "dead" assets that cost me $$ and are not making me $$

[quote="The Lone Ranger"]


Under the feudal system if you sought the protection of a powerful lord you had to pay him homage, by formally making the request in public and getting down on one knee and swearing life long fealty, or service. If you were a peasant you had to work his land and pay his taxes. If you were a fighting man you had to fight for him, even if his cause was unjust. What ever talents you had of hopes or dreams, they were all second to the plans of the lord. I have lived long enough to know one thing you can't play the appeasement game, and still have your self respect. It didn't work at Munich in 1938, and it is strange to me that people never learn from history. I still believe the only way to avoid coming under Sound Choice's sphere of influence, is to refuse to use their product at all. As Joe has pointed out Sound Choice becomes less critical every day their existing library gets older. Someday people will be singing 20 year old songs once made by them. When that happens with all the discs you have, you can have a Sound Choice show for all your seniors. Start planning for your new target market. After all 20 years happens quicker than you think, the older you get the faster time flies, especially if you have children.

The whole point is you have to pay something just to use a product, they should be paying you for the promotion of the trademark and keeping the public's mind on the product, it is free advertising at your show. Oh of course that would be true if they were still making product right. Sometimes I get confused about what business Sound Choice is really in these days. That's right they are now professional legal litigants, looking to file those personal injury suits.

You're missing he point Paradigm by once again, focusing on the number of songs, or number of discs.

I assert that it doesn't matter - once the pirate has their "certification" -which by the way is easily affordable with a 1 night a week gig at $75, there's nothing to stop this (now certified legit) host from going after your gigs on other nights at $100/night or less.

As far as erasing tracks and all the rest: Baloney. SC isn't about to interrupt a perfectly good and paying income stream. Look at it this way: If I'm paying you $350 a month for 2 years, after 6 months are you going to send me a letter and tell me that all bets are off, your lease is canceled and send back the gem series because your competitor rumbolt, calls and tells me that he thinks you have too many songs?

I don't think so. If I'm paying you, you won't make a peep until you've cashed my final payment check.... at which time you will have another product to replace the first to sell me...

There's a substantial difference between what "should happen" and reality.

It's not a matter of being gifted, all though having natural ability doesn't hurt. It is more about planning, setting goals, playing to your strengths, and away from your weakness"s. To keep in focus what it is you a trying to accomplish and having short term and long term final destination's. They don't come running with their wallets open, they ask me to come over and look over the venue. I just don't look at their business as a means of running my show. I listen to their concerns and try to tailor the show to their problems, if you show a genuine interest at making the owner a profit, then they are wanting to hear what you have to say. I have a proven track record of setting up new programs where none existed before. Also I have taken failing venues and turned them around in some cases increasing sales four fold or more. You have to work with the venues and demonstrate that you are not just there for a pay day. My minor in college was marketing / advertising.

Your position on this would be accurate if SC were only forcing pirates to pay a penalty to legitimize their pirated tracks. For example, if the guy who bought a preloaded hard drive with 18,000 SC tracks on it could pay a penalty and continue using those tracks, then you would be absolutely right--it doesn't benefit the fully legit KJ.

But we have always required those tracks to be deleted. So the legit KJ who has 10,000 SC tracks, acquired over a period of years at significant cost, isn't competing with the guy who has 18,000 SC tracks acquired for $350. He's now competing with the guy who has 4800 SC tracks acquired at double the current retail price. And when you factor in the degree to which they delete CB, PHM, etc., also, there is a significant competitive advantage to the legit KJ who has more legit tracks.

We also have an alternative settlement program whereby the pirate KJ gets out of the business, agreeing not to host for three years and agreeing to operate fully legally after that if he gets back in. Violation of that agreement causes the KJ to incur a heavy liability ($25,000 or more, plus injunctive relief).

And let's not forget about the guys who just leave the business after being sued, without an agreement.



But so will the guy who decides to start running karaoke and buys a GEM set to get started. That guy pays half what the pirate paid for the same material.



I don't think we've ever made a secret of the fact that SC hopes to gain financially through this litigation, although it's really more about making up for losses incurred due to piracy. SC isn't a charity. It's a business, and it is in business to make money. But that doesn't mean that we can't also be motivated by a desire to help legit KJs grow their businesses and make more money. Ideally, some pirates will be turned into customers, the rest will leave the business, and prices for legitimate operators (including former pirates) will go up. SC benefits from that, but so do the legit operators.

But what's to stop them from re-downloading those tracks once the dust settles? What's in place to ensure that that doesn't happen?

If caught with those tracks without a disc to back them up they are in breach of contract right there. I am sure that SC is going to be checking on them at regular intervals. The Covenant not to sue does not cover illegal deeds.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Yup, only 9 more years until your DK show is a senior show as well since you no longer use SC!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Our settlement agreements require pre-authorization to audit on short notice (usually 1 day). We require the KJ to provide us with a list of the SC discs he/she has at the time of settlement, for those who have some discs prior to settlement. We do follow-up audits periodically. We also do unannounced follow-up inspections by visiting shows, examining books, maybe even requesting songs not in the KJ's known collection, usually as a precursor to an audit. Most importantly, our settlement agreements generally provide that if the KJ violates the obligation not to commit piracy, we can void the settlement agreement and re-sue for trademark infringement, including for acts that occurred prior to the settlement.

You are placing the emphasis on the library/brand of songs as if that factor alone is the majority of the draw, not the talents of the kj running the show. If a pirate gets your "certification" then the venue is safe and that's all they care about - not the number or brand of song. Venues don't care what the "certification" is for -whether it's for discs, or mp3+g's, cassettes or singing into a paper cup much less the brand of karaoke song.

The primary reason a KJ buys a song is for the song, the brand it originates from is a secondary consideration.


"Competitive advantage" is not equated to the size of a library any more than a fancy office is a competitive advantage to a legal firm. Appropriate titles for the type of patrons that frequent any establishment is. Consequently, there are KJ's that flourish with little or no SC content in their system. Joe Chartruese, while being disc-based, has very few SC tracks at all and has been in this business for over 20 years. Lone Ranger is another.


That would only be enforceable concerning SC tracks in my opinion and any KJ that would agree to that is either uninformed and/or not represented. Or of course, really didn't need the money anyway.


Again, they didn't need the job in the first place and it's simply disposable.


Again, the costs of music is no longer a factor and the guy that pays half has now an even better advantage at undercutting other KJ's. And as we all know, the newest KJ's are the ones that tend undercut just to get in the door. So it will be a "certified undercutter" that will have the "competive advantage" over the "legit KJ" isn't it?



Ideally, a majority of pirates will "become customers" and that will only benefit SC in my opinion -- there won't be enough leaving this business to have any effect on "legit operators." And that is evidenced by the large number of filings in Florida that have not seemed to have any affect on the legit operators there.

My god we got a court reporter arguing with an attorney!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

And who's advice would you take?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

True to a point - at least for me. I have my brand preferences & I will always listen to the version if available. I will listen to said brand to see if it meets my personal standards, if not then I will pursue a different brand usually next on my list of manu preference to see if available and repeat listening process, etc. To me if a song sounds like crap then there is no point in purchasing it.


I see it as they were always there, if they become legit - great, at least they will competing with a lower number of songs, and chances are many will not be able to do so as they (at least around here) relied on the 'huge' number to try to bring people in. If they go out of business - great opens doors for other legit hosts, maybe me? Maybe someone else. I really do not care as long as it is a legit host.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I already have seniors at my shows as well as families, and I only intend to do this seven more years max. Those yamaha speakers weigh around 60 pounds each and they are getting heavier all the time. Polly want an AUDIT?

agreed, but if i have my choice between a versions, i will go for the better version. if it is SC, cool, if not, then whatever the version that i think sounds the most accurate. i won't grab an All Hits just because it is the first one i see if i can get an SC or CB version.




really? because you have so much more legal expertise than a lawyer? if someone was uninformed or unrepresented, their own fault (if it would even make a difference) and if they didn't need the money anyway, good for them leaving and opening the venue.



very true, and it has unfortunately been that way for a long time. part of advancing technology, not a whole lot we can do about that part, but we agree.



of course, if they can sell a GEM, they will. that fact has never been hidden. as far as enough leaving...i have done my share of "WTF Sound Choice?" lately and i still think it is worth waiting a bit longer to see myself the results. if nothing changes, i will be right there with you.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Hey Lon, I did a quick post yesterday, and now it seem to come up every time Chip does a post. (At the bottom of his posts) I don't know how this happened. Can you fix it? It looks like spam. Really don't know how that happened. I'll bet Chip is not too happy about it. So do what you can. Thanks

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.