Karaoke Forums

Troy, that's perfectly fine. If a patron is not purchasing anything then that's loitering, regardless of whether they are "special", white, black, Islamic or anything else. It has to be done on an equal footing. Imagine saying "Sorry Mr President you can't sing because you suck (singing or otherwise) or you're black, and your "special needs" friend can't come in or sing either. If a person is upsetting others or causing problems then again have them leave.

As a friend of someone who has three special needs kids, she's the first one to say don't allow them to get away with murder just because they are special needs. They have to learn to behave just like everyone else.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I agree. I would not discriminate against anyone based on race, sex, handicap, etc. But, I do and will discriminate against someone based on their singing ability. I feel as if I am within my rights to do so.

Just like if you were putting on a talent show. If someone sucks, they suck and you don't have to pick them to be part of your talent show. Karaoke can be argued as much the same. There are bona fide requirements - in this case TASTE. I would do the same for someone who wanted to sing F-You at 9PM. Or someone who wanted to sing a sad, obscure country song at midnight on Saturday in a busy bar. Or someone who wanted to sing something that was just sang. Etc etc etc.

If someone can't sing and their not really spending money... I think its a no brainer. As someone said, let them do it early and cut them off when it starts getting busy. If you don't have a lot of singers, definitely take DJ song breaks instead of parading them up and down the stage.

I had only 4 singers most of the night Saturday. Normally, I would take DJ breaks for a song or two after every other round. Saturday was an exception - I only had four singers but they were four GOOD singers. I didn't even play much filler music in between singers because of the banter we had going back & forth.

Welcome to Summertime along the Lake Michigan shoreline! Slow bar season (unless you are in a prime location, preferably near water).

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

I'm with Timberlea on this one. As far as I know, there is something called "The Americans with Disabilities Act", which states that people with disabilities cannot be discriminated against simply because of their disability. Why do you think bars and restaurants, and all stores spend all kinds of money making their business "handicapped accessable". You think they do it because they're so "nice", and "concerned". NO, they do it because "by law", they HAVE TO. Same applies here, I don't think (even if I were that callous), which I'm not, I'd be that foolish to tell these people that they can't sing because they're "special". What a crock.....

Rosario

First of all - for cripes sake and not a talent show. you're gonna get your clinkers whether or not they are "special" or not. For all we know the reason they can't sing well is part of their disability. I won't discriminate based on any of the criteria mentioned much less the quality of their singing. I might space them out so that some better singers are in between them but I would never tell them they can't sing just because they suck at it.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Hey, this is obviously a problem. If it were one person on one night, no problem. But five "clunkers" every night - all night?

I wonder how you guys would feel if that were your show. At some point, you have to start asking yourself if this is good for business.

I say that not based on their handicap, but their lack of singing ability.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Which is a direct cause.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The fact that they are disabled is the catch 22. If these were five 22 year old's screaming metal songs poorly over and over again as a joke, it would be much easier to deal with.

What if it is due to their disability that they can't sing. Are you gonna stop them because they can't sing and it's related to their disability.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Ok peeps, bottom line. If these special people make it so that the rest of the crowd go elsewhere, then there simply won't be a show for anyone. That's as simple as I can put it.

I most likely will not ask them to stop singing, but that doesn't mean that I have to endure it either. I haven't made up my mind on how I am going to handle it, all I was looking for was some feedback on the ethics of the situation.

You mention it is a small town bar--you would think it would be "homier." We are in the same type demographic so we aren't culling only the best singers--we have the neighborhood so we could have 5 bad in a row, disability or no disability. But everyone knows everyone so they clap and encourage, regardless.

What we did do was start bringing in hats/props, etc. so people could up their humor/entertainment value if they wanted. Nothing perks up a dreary country song like a giant cowboy hat. If the singer is someone you can joke with, you stick it on and solemnly play "guitar" behind them. (Some people don't like to share hats with strangers for obvious reasons so often hats are a host thing.) If you can pick your cases and get away with it, you can make the dreary singers fun and encourage the crowd to support them. Easier said than done but its the ideal......

We have a few with special needs, some of it brought on by alcohol......but in general the friends and neighbors of these people are supportive and not put off. The main complaints we have had are from visiting KJs who get offended that we don't follow the count a duet as both people's turn rule. If it was the same 5 people all helping each other for 5 songs in a row, that would be one thing. But if someone wants to stand by for the legally blind singer in case she forgets the words or if someone wants to duet with a special needs person who wouldn't get a chance otherwise, we aren't going to penalize them by not letting them have their own turn. The regular crowd is fine with it but the visiting KJs tend to go on about how we don't know what we are doing. We probably don't but what the heck.

WOW!! This a very difficult decision no matter the outcome. I've had this happen only one time and it really freaked me out. I was subbing for someone at a bowling alley a while back and this guy comes up to me and hands me a song slip and I politely thank him and he says nothing and kind of slowly moves away. Not really thinkiing too much about it I call him up about 30-45 minutes later and I notice that someone next to him touches him and signals him to come up.
This in itself isn't really a big deal but when he comes up to the stage I try to confirm his song request and he gives a blank stare and moves his head up and down in affirmation of the song but in a very demonstrative way. He actually is kinda violently shaking his head up and down and his eyes are kind of wicked looking. Being busy I launch his song telling myself he's probably on something but hasn't really done anything too outlandish. What a mistake!
This guy starts grunting the song purple rain and it's literally an audio horror show. I instantly recognize he's a special needs person but am unfortunately frozen solid by the shrieking moans and involuntary body movement he is displaying on stage. After about 15 seconds of sheer panic on my part I turn his mic down and turn the music up BIGTIME.
I look out to the spectators who are initially as shocked as I am but notice them scurrying away from the stage and even out the door booing their disapproval to get away from the "noise". Now I am in a dilemna. There is still roughly two minutes left to this song and this poor guy is almost in a seizure like state crazily grunting and gyrating. Another 30 seconds go by and I'm even more paniced than before.
To be completely honest I didn't know what to do. I was conflicted. Part of me wanted to immediately stop everything and possibly blame it on a computer malfunction, etc. so I could stop this insanity. The other part of me (my conscious) was telling me that it wouldn't be fair to just abruptly kill the song and leave him there hangin'.... so..............
I grabbed another mic!! I walked up and gently put my hand on this guy's shoulder and tried desperately to help him finish Purple Rain. Here's the positve: As soon as I put my hand on his shoulder he stopped gyrating. Secondly, even as bad as I sound doing Prince it softened the whole performance and together we finished it. I made what was left of my audience applaud his efforts and he walked off stage with a satisfied smirk on his face. The negative: Even though he put in another song I didn't have the courage to call him up again and his family didn't push the issue.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

Really, they are there for their enjoyment as much as anybody else. What if they don't like how some of the other singers sound? Do they get up and go out when those people sing?

I know a guy who would always join our group on outings, including going to movies. And he enjoyed the movie just as much as anyone else. I can only imagine what backlash the theatre would have faced had they banned him just because he was unable to see the screen!

Singing a karaoke song is not something that I believe is covered under the Disabilities Act... providing ramps and other devices to insure access is. And I'm certainly not saying that any special person should not be allowed to sing only on the basis that they are special.

That being said, karaoke entertainment is designed to entertain ALL the patrons in the club - not just the person singing at the time. There have been plenty of discussions on these boards about when to "cut off" an abusive drunk, a potentially violent person or a person that abuses your equipment, etc... Each of these situations will "ruin the experience" for all the other patrons in the club - so what's the solution? Bounce 'em. Toss them out, refuse service and send them on their way. Can they scream "discrimination?" I don't think so.

Your job as a karaoke entertainer is to draw MORE patrons and KEEP the patrons that are there in the joint - not to allow anyone.... anyone... to drive away the majority of patrons in the club.

Like I said, you have two choices:

#1. Let them sing and drive away what patrons are there until you are unemployed, or

#2. Compromise with them so that you start early to accommodate them and they sing less when your regular show starts.... and keep your job.

The choice is yours - but the disabilities act is not about to tell me who I have to hand one of my microphones to sing into or throw on the floor.

I guess someone doesn't pay attention. A Special Needs person is in no way equal to a drunk or a violent person (unless they are violent). Ask a judge (I'm sure you know many) if refusing to let a paying Special Needs person to sing, is legal.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I usually just read these and don't comment but in this case I feel I have to.

I can't believe that this is even a topic.. Jeez people have a heart for others. What if this was YOUR family member who
just happened to be born "special" or an accident caused them to be "special" and they were treated as if they had a
contagious disease?

I can understand people not wanting to listen, but they can get up and walk out if they can't sit for 3 minutes and listen to
someone else sing a song. I myself have been at a karaoke show and I personally don't like Elvis songs or Elvis impersonators
but I would NEVER expect the KJ to not "allow" them a chance to sing.

I think the best that can be done here is to just put them in the rotation and like others have said, just shuffle the "special people"
into the others in rotation.

Apparently, you never read past option #1 as a solution.




Nice Try.

We are not talking just one or two singer in a night that happen to be less than stellar singers, we are talking several who can dominate a night with horrendous singing, not just bad singing, but singing that can make your ears hurt, literally. One of the singers, I actually have to turn his mic down almost off to the mains, and let him hear himself in the monitors only, just so it is less painful to the listeners. And that is NO exaggeration.

I would never ask someone to leave an establishment for being "special", that is plainly wrong. But, to have a night turn into to "Special Education Karaoke" is really not what is expected by the owners. They have a business to run, and it's not a charity house. They are in it for profit. Now, this situation is a little more delicate for sure, but it no different than someone who is abusing the mics, in my opinion. For now, I simply turn the singer down when needed, but I want to be able to come up with a solution that will make everyone, including the "special" singers.

No one here has said that and the scenario doesn't include refusing them any chance to sing at all.


THAT'S THE PROBLEM: Having the patrons "clear out" when there are too many, too close together. It doesn't become fun for them anymore, it becomes an obligatory burden that they might not be willing to tolerate. Consequently, they leave..... and your job as a KJ might just leave with them.


Almost exactly what I said but with one big difference:
I would offer to start EARLY so they could SING MORE and then spread them apart in the rotation so that others do not walk out.

But apparently here that's not acceptable either.

My job is to keep as many people happy as possible, not to make one group happy at the expense of any other.

So Chip, just to get it straight, you refuse to let any bad singer sing, correct?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Nope. Not correct. Please completely read the above posts - twice if necessary.

Obviously, you are ignoring the content of my posts and simply want to argue for the sake of arguing...

Nice try again.