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JimHarrington
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:25 pm |
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The Lone Ranger wrote:  That answers the question all the cheerleaders have been asking, when will there be new music? The answer never because it is no longer profitable to make it. You assume that because it is not profitable now, it will never be profitable in the future. I don't think that's a good assumption for any industry or business. In this case, I think it's an especially unwarranted assumption, because we have stated from the very beginning that the major goal of the litigation is to remove, as much as possible, the major barrier to profitability of new music, which is piracy. If you can solve the piracy problem in a way that significantly increases the number of purchasers of new music, to the level of profitability, then you will see new music being made. But when it takes X number of sales to make a disc profitable, and sales only reach X-1000, yet 90% of the market has the content of that disc on a hard drive system, that's not a viable business model. I can't speak for the other manufacturers, because I don't represent them and I know nothing about their businesses. I doubt they are having a rosy time at the moment.
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diafel
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:46 pm |
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
You assume that because it is not profitable now, it will never be profitable in the future. I don't think that's a good assumption for any industry or business. In this case, I think it's an especially unwarranted assumption, because we have stated from the very beginning that the major goal of the litigation is to remove, as much as possible, the major barrier to profitability of new music, which is piracy. If you can solve the piracy problem in a way that significantly increases the number of purchasers of new music, to the level of profitability, then you will see new music being made. But when it takes X number of sales to make a disc profitable, and sales only reach X-1000, yet 90% of the market has the content of that disc on a hard drive system, that's not a viable business model.
I can't speak for the other manufacturers, because I don't represent them and I know nothing about their businesses. I doubt they are having a rosy time at the moment.
I have three words that will significantly curtail piracy much, much faster than going after KJs (although if they are truly pirating, then by all means, they should be made to pay as well). The three words?
HARD DRIVE SELLERSHowever, it would also significantly curtail the income generated by going after KJs, so I don't expect to see it happen any time soon, if ever.
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Thunder
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:56 am |
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diafel wrote: HarringtonLaw wrote:
You assume that because it is not profitable now, it will never be profitable in the future. I don't think that's a good assumption for any industry or business. In this case, I think it's an especially unwarranted assumption, because we have stated from the very beginning that the major goal of the litigation is to remove, as much as possible, the major barrier to profitability of new music, which is piracy. If you can solve the piracy problem in a way that significantly increases the number of purchasers of new music, to the level of profitability, then you will see new music being made. But when it takes X number of sales to make a disc profitable, and sales only reach X-1000, yet 90% of the market has the content of that disc on a hard drive system, that's not a viable business model.
I can't speak for the other manufacturers, because I don't represent them and I know nothing about their businesses. I doubt they are having a rosy time at the moment.
I have three words that will significantly curtail piracy much, much faster than going after KJs (although if they are truly pirating, then by all means, they should be made to pay as well). The three words?
HARD DRIVE SELLERSHowever, it would also significantly curtail the income generated by going after KJs, so I don't expect to see it happen any time soon, if ever. You haven't heard yet?
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diafel
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:59 am |
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Thunder wrote: You haven't heard yet? What? That ONE OLD FBI case, Dan Sterns? Whoop-di-do! Pretty stale, when there are literally hundreds, maybe thousands of sellers out there and many of you can easily find them, yet SC can't! But they certainly have no trouble finding John Doe!
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:32 am |
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HarringtonLaw wrote: The Lone Ranger wrote: That answers the question all the cheerleaders have been asking, when will there be new music? The answer never because it is no longer profitable to make it. You assume that because it is not profitable now, it will never be profitable in the future. I don't think that's a good assumption for any industry or business. In this case, I think it's an especially unwarranted assumption, because we have stated from the very beginning that the major goal of the litigation is to remove, as much as possible, the major barrier to profitability of new music, which is piracy. If you can solve the piracy problem in a way that significantly increases the number of purchasers of new music, to the level of profitability, then you will see new music being made. But when it takes X number of sales to make a disc profitable, and sales only reach X-1000, yet 90% of the market has the content of that disc on a hard drive system, that's not a viable business model. I can't speak for the other manufacturers, because I don't represent them and I know nothing about their businesses. I doubt they are having a rosy time at the moment. Let's put it this way by the time you create a profitable environment that you are describing, I will either be retired from the industry totally or dead. Either way it won't make much difference to me. Oh there is a third possibility SC just might wake up someday and figure out this whole approach is unsustainable, and simply charge a fee to shift what remains of their library they still have total ownership of. Actually that business model would be viable as you say, since according to this post 90% of the market is shifted material, if you are really looking to make money without legal costs, that would seem to me the way to go.
Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Lone Ranger
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:41 am |
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Thunder wrote: Paradigm Karaoke wrote: i have to side with Ranger on this point. Chartbuster, Stellar and others can be profitable in making new music, why not SC? if it was just the piracy that made them close the studio (their words, not mine, http://thekiaa.org/images/ComplaintLadyLuckFiled.pdfpage 3 lines 9 - 19) then why can these other companies be more profitable? why are people still buying CB and Stellar and others but not SC? Chartbuster has already stated that they may be looking at curtailing new releases, don't be suprised if Stellar does the same thing in the very near future. Both have been exploring new delivery methods to curtail theft of their product (which by the way I can find both PHM and CB on a torrent site before a new release actually gets to my door in the mail).  Thunder has finally said something I can agree with. Both of the other manus have been exploring new delivery methods to curtail theft of their product. Why wouldn't SC be doing the same research, unless they have no real desire to make new product. Hell even the old library they are selling as Gem series, is owned more by Stingray than SC, only a smaller undisclosed amount of the catalog is totally retained by SC. Is this the action of a company that states at some far off distant time they are going to start producing again?
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:52 am |
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I think it would be better if they all sold their material digitally, and encode the name of the purchaser and ID or serial number of some sort not only at the beginning, but on any musical breaks and ending pages - yeah I know it can be re-edited to delete these, but it is time consuming to do so for the average user. This way the purchaser would be more likely to guard their stuff, and if the songs ever did get out on torrents, the manus would know who to hit up first!
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:08 pm |
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Lonman wrote: I think it would be better if they all sold their material digitally, and encode the name of the purchaser and ID or serial number of some sort not only at the beginning, but on any musical breaks and ending pages - yeah I know it can be re-edited to delete these, but it is time consuming to do so for the average user. This way the purchaser would be more likely to guard their stuff, and if the songs ever did get out on torrents, the manus would know who to hit up first! i agree Lon. yes, any anti-pirating method can be broken, but the numbers of people that would really try that hard is small in comparison.
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hiteck
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:50 pm |
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In regards to older existing tracks why couldn't the manus offer a digital version with the customer id encoded as a replacement to turning in the old original media?
Only problem there is, that not all music that has been released is still available.
But if it was a 1 to 1 replacement might there be some agreement they could make with original IP owner. Maybe not, just thinking out loud here.
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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:57 pm |
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hiteck wrote: In regards to older existing tracks why couldn't the manus offer a digital version with the customer id encoded as a replacement to turning in the old original media?
Only problem there is, that not all music that has been released is still available.
But if it was a 1 to 1 replacement might there be some agreement they could make with original IP owner. Maybe not, just thinking out loud here. I would be willing to turn my discs in for an id encoded digital version (ripped at 320 minimum of course) - I would say that they would have to be ripped from the discs being returned, so any disc/song that are scratched or broken to not play would be out of luck. That would be a hell of a lot of work though so I doubt that would ever become an option. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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hiteck
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:10 pm |
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Thunder wrote: I would love to have that idea implemented but there is a cost issue there as well. Someone would have to pay someone for the replacements, right now Sound Choice offers just that as you can trade in your old disc for discounts on the GEM series. No real cost for digital media, but I guess there would be some costs incurred for employee(s) to handle the swapping out of disk/ripped tracks. Maybe something like - The end user (KJ) returns disks with an empty portable hard drive and complete song listing plus shipping/handling/insurance. SC verifies disks and track listing and returns PHD with customer id encoded tracks.
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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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hiteck
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:11 pm |
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Lonman wrote: I would be willing to turn my discs in for an id encoded digital version (ripped at 320 minimum of course) - I would say that they would have to be ripped from the discs being returned, so any disc/song that are scratched or broken to not play would be out of luck. That would be a hell of a lot of work though so I doubt that would ever become an option. Why would they be out of luck. I thought you could get a replacement disk from CB & SC if you had the original in tact for a s&h? So if they have a disk with the tracks send them the ripped version with the cust id.
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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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hiteck
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:14 pm |
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Would be a way to certify KJ's as legit and legal, but then SC really isn't concerned about the legit KJ's. After thinking about it, it really wouldn't help fight piracy, except in the case where someones HD or PC was stolen...oh well sounded good for a minute... 
_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:23 pm |
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hiteck wrote: Lonman wrote: I would be willing to turn my discs in for an id encoded digital version (ripped at 320 minimum of course) - I would say that they would have to be ripped from the discs being returned, so any disc/song that are scratched or broken to not play would be out of luck. That would be a hell of a lot of work though so I doubt that would ever become an option. Why would they be out of luck. I thought you could get a replacement disk from CB & SC if you had the original in tact for a s&h? So if they have a disk with the tracks send them the ripped version with the cust id. They do not offer replacements on OOP discs. If a disc is found to be scratched that they do have in stock they could either send it back stating you would need to return it through regular return/exchange policies or they can email you and give you the option to replace if it is still available. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:38 pm |
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Thunder wrote: You really haven't heard  heard........? don't Staley us with it....spit it out home skillet.
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:47 pm |
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote: Thunder wrote: You really haven't heard heard........? don't Staley us with it....spit it out home skillet. Exactly! Too many games! _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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jdmeister
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:03 pm |
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Thunder is taking another vacation..
Welcome him back as BarryTone?
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:15 pm |
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uhoh.....did you go digging in history for some reason to ban him? he was right....it IS a conspiracy!!! 
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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c. staley
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:23 pm |
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote: i agree Lon. yes, any anti-pirating method can be broken, but the numbers of people that would really try that hard is small in comparison. It wouldn't take a lot. Just one.... per song. I actually have no idea how torrent sites work, they're blocked off my network with all the peer-to-peer sites as well.... {edited}
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c. staley
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:29 pm |
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote: heard........?
don't Staley us with it....spit it out home skillet. cheap shot paradigm.... you know, the one time I don't upload proof I've paid for, or provide a link (from within this same site) and now you've named it after me? No good deeds ever go unpunished I guess....
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