Karaoke Forums

Just thought I'd "chime in again". First, I personally think this whole subject stinks. The reason being, that it isn't pointed at bad "singers", but specifically "disabled", or "special", or "retarded" singers, which ever choice of words you find more to your liking. I haven't heard anything about the "other" bad singers being asked to leave, or being "barred" from singing. Now all of a sudden, they're having sex in the bathroom, and such. Disabled, or not, they should have been approached, and told to leave, and not come back, as this is inappropriate behavior. I think if this establishment doesn't want these "special" people in their place, they should put on the front entrance door a sign saying "NO RETARDS ALLOWED". Since most people who've responded to this subject thinks that the establishment "reserves the right to refuse service" to anyone it pleases, this shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to see how long that establishment would stay open after posting that sign. I don't think that people with disabilities should be given "special" treatment, but I don't think they should be discriminated against either. I'm not going to call names, but let each of you figure that out for yourselves.

You guys are stretching it a bit aren't ya?? I NEVER once said that anyone should be asked to leave, THAT IS WRONG IN THIS SITUATION. And it's really not a question of the lack of money being spent, because most of them ARE spending at least a little money. Some of you are reading things that aren't there, or just plainly NOT reading the responses fully. Whichever it is, keep to the subject at hand which is this: When is it ok to ask someone to not sing? 2 of the 5 in question are really not an issue, it's just we (meaning me) have to put them into the group because they fit into that type of "slow" people. This really isn't an issue about disabilities either. To ask someone with a disability to leave simply for that reason is wrong in my book. This is an issue of so many horrid singers that happen to be "slow", creating an appearance of the bar catering to that type of crowd, which creates tension. Only 2 of these singers are so terrible as to be intolerable to the point of me having to turn their mics so far down so people in the audience can bare the noise. The other 3 are at least no worse than some other singers that I have had. But of the 3, one of them can be an annoyance, but he doesn't come regularly, but ALL the others do.

It's a very tough situation for me, and that is why I posted the thread and am asking for opinions. Not to turn this into an ugly situation of name calling or finger pointing.

Mr. Scott, you're the one that is making it an issue of them being "slow", or whatever anyone else wants to call it. That should NOT even be an issue. The issue should be if they are bad singers, and should be barred from singing for "that reason", and "that reason" alone. It should NOT have any bearing on if they're "special", or a little "slow", or whatever. If "bad singers" is your problem, then the question should be "When is it ok to bar.... BAD SINGERS". The fact that they have disabilities shouldn't even be an issue. If you have too many "bad singers", then that's what YOU have to decide. Whether your business can withstand a hit of barring ALL bad singers. Then you should change your business from karaoke to Mr Scott's talent show. NO BAD SINGERS ALLOWED....

Sorry, thought my post was a clear indication of a poor management decision when dealing with poor singers- he had clearly decided that he wanted a show of good singers and had opted to tell the bad singers not to come back - my eyerolling comes from the knowledge that he had a perfectly legitmate reason for barring them and still thought best to tell them they couldn't sing - despite me telling him that the fallout of banning the couple on vocal skill would tarnish the show and his pub.

I also only ever stated in my posts that these singers were "bad" - which the couple were: they barely knew the verses to the songs they chose, they often picked obscure slow numbers, mumbled into the mircophone, tended just to stand staring at the screen and weren't in tune. However even in their case vocally they were getting better with pratice and they were discovering songs that they knew and eventually, I suspect, they would have found crowd pleasing numbers had they not been put off from karaoke all together. Which sadly they have. Regardless, although I like the couple, their bathroom pratices wouldn't go down to well with my longer term regular customers

I only referenced "bad" singers at my show because the customers with disabilities are no better or worse than the ones without. I think @Smirtynow, whereas I have chosen to read this whole thread with the blinkers on assuming we were just talking about bad singers... you may have gone the opposite way and assumed every answer was in response to how we deal with people who have disabilities.

Didn't mean to offend.... (and also didn't mean to take up half a page with my clarification).

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

I think the fact that they are "slow" DOES enter into the question.
Because they are "slow", they need to be handled a little differently than your regular singers who may (or may not) have thicker skins. There is a certain amount of more sensitivity that MUST be shown these customers that you wouldn't normally have to use with regular ones. That's reality, like it or not.
So yes, it DOES enter into the question, albeit not the way some here have taken it.

Apparently, this is a situation with so many viewpoints as to not be able to have a proper solution. It has created a dialogue of tension, which I never intended. To those who offered a genuine level of concern and suggestions, I thank you. But it looks like I will have to make my own decisions based on what I know to be true , whether perceived truth or real truth.

Thanks peeps.

Considering that i am mildly retarded *let's call a spade a spade* i expect people to treat me as they would anyone else. I can't always afford to order something, but I always do when I can and for most places that's good enough.


If i was doing something wrong, and someone asked me to leave i wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it.

My personal take is everyone gets to sing, until they give me a good reason to not let them sing OR the bar kicks them out. *I have been told to buy something or leave, so I left*

-James

Hello from a newbie across the Pond!
This is an observation on the subtle differences we apear to have. One thing I've noticed as I sing my way across my small country is that karaoke seems to attract 'special' people. Whether its because they can participate in a social occasion (unlike say, soccer) I don't know, but some of the most entertaining evenings have been spent in their company. They really don't seem to care about the audience, they are doing something that is purely for their own amusement.
I've been in bars that treat them as family, where the biggest cheers are saved for them, because the audience appreciates the effort required to get up and sing. I've also been in bars where the spiteful comments of the KJ have reduced me to tears. I've seen hard men reduced to quivering wrecks by a landlady for making a derogatory comment. I've never seen them behaving badly, throwing a tantrum or making ridiculaous demands, unlike many young wannabe divas! Give me some enthusiastic @special needs' over an X-Facto reject any day of the week.

If you don't have good singers, then you have to be an entertainer.
I like the idea of using props, maybe doing some ridiculous antics so that people are entertained. You could also download some funny videos from Youtube or wherever and show them from your laptop in between songs, maybe tell some jokes. Joke about how bad the song was, but do it in such a subtle way that only the smartest people will pick up on it. Watch Chuck Barris on the Gong Show...he knew exactly how to do that.

We have one person at our show who has some sort of disability. The KJ calls her the "House Favorite". She stumbles through the words and sings in monotone, and we all applaud anyway. Sometimes I sing along in harmony, to try to take the edge off of the scraping in my ears. Drinking a lot helps.

The thing is, I don't find her any more difficult to tolerate than the kids who put their hats on backwards and scream iambic profanity and racial epithets, a form of voluntary retardation, if you'll pardon the expression.

Update:

Ok, it's been a while since I last posted on this thread, so I thought I would update the ongoing situation. First of all, it's,,,well, still ongoing,, but that is actually a good thing I suppose. There hasn't been any of these special people to be asked to leave or not sing. However, I have been working little by little on teaching the 2 young men a little mic technique, and it has helped tremendously. I told them, the louder you sing into the mic, the lower I put the volume. And they seem to understand what I am trying to say. In fact, the one has actually improved in his singing a bit.

So, it seems teaching is the answer here, not intolerance. I guess I can learn new things too.

2 Side notes from this bar though... first... I had been hosting a show at this bar in question on Thursday nights, but now am hosting both Thursday and Friday nights. So far so good, it's not a slam dunk yet, but the amount of increases for sales on fridays has well over tripled just in the couple of weeks that I have been there.

Second side note isn't quite so warm and fuzzy tho. The one young man in question that is the worst of the 5 singers, had been singing at another bar 6 miles away on a different night. The other bar actually told him (from the owner himself) that he isn't allowed to sing anymore there. He was heartbroken. So I guess that patience will pay off in the end after all.

I now have one of these singers. He is terrible! I think he is tone deaf, only knows one note and is usually 2 to 5 words behind on the lyrics. The owner asked me one night to play DJ songs instead of karaoke when this singer is there. I've not done that but what a situation.

He thinks he can get the dance floor going, he calls out for dancers but who can dance to that type of performance?

Perhaps I can try to teach him, he is always there early and I could spend a bit of time with him. I think everyone has talent that can only go so far but most aren't there. Not that I'm an expert or anything but I could try?

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

absolutely!!!!
if he will take some direction from you, why not do your best. the simple fact that you are willing to take the time to help him improve will make him very happy, and others that see you do it will also see that you really do care about your people. that kind of reputation is priceless in this business.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens