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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:21 am 
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kjathena wrote:
Lonman....if you read the docs provided Karaoke Miami did some very stupid things such as requesting a dissolution of the LLC backdated(and stated no legal suits in the paperwork ect)....continuing to run shows after service so I dont think they are thinking about anything. I hope CB gets in their judgments against them too. I am awaiting the 3 defaults on known pirates in our little part of the state....will post here when I have firm info.
:banger:
With the judges ruling SC can now turn the matter over for collections. They can take equipment, non homesteaded property, garnish wages,attach windfalls(winnings inheritances ect) and cause the matter to be reported to credit reporting agencies (poor credit ratings effect everything from auto insurance to some jobs as well as what you pay for credit)as well as other actions here in Florida....in other words cause the pirate much grief for a very long time (Judgment cant even be discharged in bankruptcy) I hope SC gets the chance to collect a good percentage of the judgment.
:hi5:
To anyone still on the fence can you imagine loosing your inheritance or property because you were a pirate ? Or not getting a decent job you want ? I believe most people will look at all the info available and make the right decision for themselves.
:order:


Depending on the structure of an LLC or Corporation, the KJ may well be protected from ANY involvement of personal property and/or funds. The very purpose of these entities is just that. So what happens? The LLC or corp. goes chapter 11, he/she creates another, and off they go again... Nothing for SC, no damage to the KJ's personal life or finances.

But, as previously stated, any KJ stupid enough to allow a default could certainly have screwed up the structuring of the protective business entity. Who knows?

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Last edited by JoeChartreuse on Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:23 am 
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Wall Of Sound wrote:
c. staley wrote:
If you want to erase data.. that can never be recoverable, there is open source external block overwrite utilities that can do it and they're free.


Then why would the government require grinding a HD up that holds classified info if these utilities are available?

Policy.

Wall Of Sound wrote:
Also can this utility just delete certain files or does it kill the whole drive?

Specific files.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:16 am 
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
Depending on the structure of an LLC or Corporation, the KJ may well be protected from ANY involvement of personal property and/or funds.


Karaoke Miami LLC is currently inactive. Link below shows Bernard Ravelo & Peter A. Ravelo as Officers in the inactive LLC.

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/ ... 02313.aspx

Current lawsuit revised to show Bernard Ravelo & Peter A. Ravelo as defendants, not Karaoke Miami LLC:

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/trad ... n/summary/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On a side note, other defendants apart from the Ravelo's, the defendant W.R.A.T.H. ENTERTAINMENT, seem to have had a lawyer at some point who has now withdrawn according to the docket text:

"8/30/2011 62 NOTICE of Withdrawal of Paul Roecker as Counsel by CAROLYNE DELANEY KELLEY, SHAWN P KELLEY, W.R.A.T.H. ENTERTAINMENT (FITZGERALD, PATRICIA) (Entered: 08/30/2011)"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:17 am 
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Wall Of Sound wrote:
Then why would the government require grinding a HD up that holds classified info if these utilities are available?


Because the government usually takes the easy way out. It's easier to throw a HD into a grinder and buy an new one then it is to erase the old one.
Having been in the military I've seen stuff that is perfectly good thrown away just because "We need to use up the monies in our budget or we won't get as much next year"

Have you ever been to a Military Surplus sale?
Lots of good finds including complete computers.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:11 am 
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Hiding behind a corporation doesn't automatically keep an individual immune from a lawsuit.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:30 pm 
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Wall Of Sound wrote:
jdmeister wrote:
Wall Of Sound wrote:

Does this then mean that SC should either "smash" or "grind" Karaoke Miami's devices to insure total deletion of any SC mark on the devices?


No that's not what the judge said.. :mrgreen:


Yes. I believe you are correct.

Perhaps SC should go back to the judge & see if they can "smash" or "grind" since it is a fact that deleted data can be recovered off of these devices.


That would require an "Appeal" and could turn nasty.. if in fact the Judge allowed such..

(Not likely, as courts are packed, resources are slim)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:31 pm 
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once the cooperate veil is pierced the cooperation offers no protection what so ever (this happens as easily as mixing funds). The state of Florida is now going to be after good ole Bernie for lying on his backdated dissolution paperwork as well....but SC did cover all bases and name the individual as well.

Did anyone bother to read the entire document DE79 – Order granting Slep-Tone Motion for Default Judgment was written by the judge, with a lot of additional research done by her and added to the motion. If she didn’t think that the case and arguments were valid, she wouldn’t have granted the judgment, let alone added more detail bolstering it.

The pirates can hope all they want that “it means nothing”, but it’s likely that all other defaulted cases are going to end the same way – in SC's favor. And a KJ with a $25,000 or higher judgment hanging over his head when he could have settled for $7500 (soon to be higher)would seem to have made a very poor decision.

Are any of the pirates willing to spend their money to test the case – or are they just hoping some other poor sucker does while they sit back and play armchair quarterback?

And on another point did anyone take advantage of the deep discount offered on the Gem series when it was available? just wondering

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:43 pm 
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kjathena wrote:
The pirates can hope all they want that “it means nothing”, but it’s likely that all other defaulted cases are going to end the same way – in SC's favor.

Not sure what pirates you are referring to that are "hoping it means nothing" or where you got that information. Care to share, or are you insinuating, again, albeit rather subtly, that some of us here are pirates? Just checking.
kjathena wrote:
Are any of the pirates willing to spend their money to test the case – or are they just hoping some other poor sucker does while they sit back and play armchair quarterback?

Personally, I don't want any "pirates" to test the case. I want someone they've named but already have the discs and refuse the SC audit!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:15 pm 
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diafel wrote:
kjathena wrote:
The pirates can hope all they want that “it means nothing”, but it’s likely that all other defaulted cases are going to end the same way – in SC's favor.

Not sure what pirates you are referring to that are "hoping it means nothing" or where you got that information. Care to share, or are you insinuating, again, albeit rather subtly, that some of us here are pirates? Just checking.
It IS my belief that some here MAY be pirates...this belief is due to KNOWN pirates in my area having print copies of this board posts
kjathena wrote:
Are any of the pirates willing to spend their money to test the case – or are they just hoping some other poor sucker does while they sit back and play armchair quarterback?

Personally, I don't want any "pirates" to test the case. I want someone they've named but already have the discs and refuse the SC audit!

Refusing an audit would cause them to have to go to court and "test the case"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:28 pm 
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kjathena wrote:
It IS my belief that some here MAY be pirates...this belief is due to KNOWN pirates in my area having print copies of this board posts

Not hard to have print copies. There are tons of lurkers. Just do a google search for any topic here and guess what? Also, even if there are some registered, it doesn't mean that they are actually active on the boards. Again, just WHAT PIRATE here is "hoping it means nothing" and where did you hear this? Which post?
I seriously wish you would cut this kind of thing out. It's old and it's antagonistic towards others. It adds nothing to the discussion at hand and it achieves nothing here but discord and infighting. Why not try to knock it off? It would be so helpful in the long run.
When you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are, in fact, pirates here, and which user ID's they go by, then we will all be happy to hear about it. Until then, pipe down.
kjathena wrote:
Refusing an audit would cause them to have to go to court and "test the case"

But apparently SC drops the ball and goes home at that point. I know of one for sure and another that appears to be similar. So far, it appears that SC is trying to "wait them out", but that will only go on so long.


Last edited by diafel on Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:30 pm 
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kjathena wrote:
Are any of the pirates willing to spend their money to test the case – or are they just hoping some other poor sucker does while they sit back and play armchair quarterback?

diafel wrote:
Personally, I don't want any "pirates" to test the case. I want someone they've named but already have the discs and refuse the SC audit!

kjathena wrote:
Refusing an audit would cause them to have to go to court and "test the case"


Diafel... I'm not sure what you are wishing for here. Wouldn't your scenario (as kjathena replied back to in RED) just make the Judge say, "Case Dismissed."?


Last edited by Cueball on Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:37 pm 
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cueball wrote:
kjathena wrote:
Are any of the pirates willing to spend their money to test the case – or are they just hoping some other poor sucker does while they sit back and play armchair quarterback?

diafel wrote:
Personally, I don't want any "pirates" to test the case. I want someone they've named but already have the discs and refuse the SC audit!

kjathena wrote:
Refusing an audit would cause them to have to go to court and "test the case"


Diafel... I'm not sure what you are wishing for here. Wouldn't your scenario (as kjathena replied back to in RED) just make the Judge say, "Case Dismissed."?

Not at all. They would then have to go to court and have a trial (judge or jury, doesn't matter which) if a settlement can't be reached. The problem is, once it gets to that point, it seems SC walks away. They don't want to go to an actual trial. Can we say "bluffing"?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Not to mention the Defendant would have to show their discs at the Discovery. Once the discs were shown, then the case would be dropped.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Athena is right that a corporate veil can be pierced for co-mingling funds. The chances that ANY KJ - who works with mostly cash - doesn't co-mingle funds is slim-to-none.

The KJs personal assets are at risk. But, how valuable can a KJs assets be worth? I mean, if he is using pirated tracks, how much could SC hope to gain by forcing a seizure/liquidation?

If he doesn't want to pay, he doesn't have to. All he has to do is plead poverty and the court cannot touch him. OJ Simpson did just that. Before he went to prison for the Las Vegas incident, he still owed quite a bit to the Goldmans. And that's OJ Simpson - very high profile defendant. It would be much easier for a KJ to plead poverty than someone like OJ.

And, SC can't tell him he can't make a living, so he'll probably keep on running karaoke. And, guess what - probably all cash.

I hate piracy! But, fact is, good luck collecting anything on this judgement.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:54 pm 
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cueball wrote:
Diafel... I'm not sure what you are wishing for here. Wouldn't your scenario (as kjathena replied back to in RED) just make the Judge say, "Case Dismissed."?

diafel wrote:
Not at all. They would then have to go to court and have a trial (judge or jury, doesn't matter which) if a settlement can't be reached. The problem is, once it gets to that point, it seems SC walks away. They don't want to go to an actual trial. Can we say "bluffing"?


I think you're looking for a little bit more than that. After all, that scenario (above) is SC's case... SC vs Mr. KJ.

I would think that in this case (SC sues Mr. KJ, and Mr. KJ has all his discs, but refuses to have an audit), once it is presented in Court (with both parties standing in front of a Judge), obviously there is NOT going to be any settlement because Mr. KJ is going to say/claim he has all of the original discs. After that is stated, wouldn't the following be true?

timberlea wrote:
Not to mention the Defendant would have to show their discs at the Discovery. Once the discs were shown, then the case would be dropped.


Wouldn't Mr. KJ have to make a counter-suit against SC after that (if he chooses to spend the money and time in doing so), and that would then be Mr. KJ vs SC?.... Or, can Mr. KJ make a counter-claim against SC in the SC vs Mr. KJ case (before they appear in Court)?


Last edited by Cueball on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Cue, on what grounds? Are you alleging that a manu's request for an audit is illegal? If so, under what rule of law? If not, then the host is just prolonging the inevitible.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:07 pm 
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timberlea wrote:
Cue, on what grounds? Are you alleging that a manu's request for an audit is illegal? If so, under what rule of law? If not, then the host is just prolonging the inevitible.


I don't know on what grounds. Others here have said many things (in many other topic threads), about what they would like to see happen with a case against a KJ who operates a show via computer and IS 1:1, but REFUSES to be audited. That's why I am asking.


Last edited by Cueball on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:09 pm 
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cueball wrote:
I think you're looking for a little bit more than that. After all, that scenario (above) is SC's case... SC vs Mr. KJ.

I would think that in this case (SC sues Mr. KJ, and Mr. KJ has all his discs, but refuses to have an audit), once it is presented in Court (with both parties standing in front of a Judge), obviously there is NOT going to be any settlement because Mr. KJ is going to say/claim he has all of the original discs. After that is stated, wouldn't the following be true?

timberlea wrote:
Not to mention the Defendant would have to show their discs at the Discovery. Once the discs were shown, then the case would be dropped.


Wouldn't Mr. KJ have to make a counter-suit against SC after that (if he chooses to spend the money and time in doing so), and that would then be Mr. KJ vs SC?.... Or, can Mr. KJ make a counter-claim against SC in that very same case (before they appear in Court)?

The problem is, when a KJ indicates he wishes to fight, it NEVER gets that far! SC walks away!
Not sure what Mr. KJ would be counter-suing for, but I do believe Mr. KJ can counter-claim within the same suit as long as it is regarding the same issue. I know when my ex-husband and I were divorcing and fighting for custody of our kids, he was named the plaintiff and I the respondent(defendant), but only because he filed for the divorce first. After that, every time I took him for child support, custody, or whatever, even years later, I was always stuck being the respondent, only because he filed first, and it was regarding the same issue. The courts won't open another file if it's regarding the same issue already on file. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:15 pm 
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diafel wrote:
The problem is, when a KJ indicates he wishes to fight, it NEVER gets that far! SC walks away!

Wouldn't that have to happen in Court? If Mr. KJ says to SC, "I'm going to fight you on this," and SC decides to "walk away," wouldn't that be the equivalent of SC saying, "We wish to drop the lawsuit against this party." as vs the Judge saying, "Case Dismissed."?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:26 pm 
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cueball wrote:
diafel wrote:
The problem is, when a KJ indicates he wishes to fight, it NEVER gets that far! SC walks away!

Wouldn't that have to happen in Court? If Mr. KJ says to SC, "I'm going to fight you on this," and SC decides to "walk away," wouldn't that be the equivalent of SC saying, "We wish to drop the lawsuit against this party." as vs the Judge saying, "Case Dismissed."?

The end result is pretty much the same, but nothing is really decided that way. No points of law get debated and the other side to the argument (ie: fair use for KJ's) never gets heard, so it's all really still in limbo.


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