Karaoke Forums

$100,000? REALLY?

If piracy hasn't reached your community yet, just wait for it. It's coming. You'll have all that money invested in your equipment, maybe even payments to make, and Peter The Pirate will enter the marketplace with more music, a great personality, a bunch of friends, and adequate equipment.

Don't buy into the perception that the typical pirate is some d-bag who doesn't have a clue as to what they are doing. Just like the legitimate host, you have good ones and bad ones.

My first system cost me less than $5k, including music. It worked for me just fine, although I have since bought additional systems, to include Bose. That first system still works just fine and usually fills in at the bar when I need the Bose system for a wedding.

And its a good thing I didn't spend a ton of money on music since the price of music has reached unheard of low levels over the last 6 months or so.

_________________
I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Two more comments:

First, karaoke is as popular as ever, thanks to American Idol, X-Factor and shows like Glee. With that being said, karaoke bars are not making as much as they used to because of the over saturation of karaoke (thanks, in part, to piracy). This means that, with your dreams of getting many karaoke shows, just keep in mind that you will reach a point of saturation in your community and the new shows will cannibalize customers from your existing shows.

Second, trust me that you do not want to partner up with an existing karaoke company. The loyalty amongst karaoke companies is almost always the same as amongst thieves. Do all the contracts you want, but I would be willing to bet that it will, in some way, backfire.

_________________
I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

@TroyVnd27 - Piracy is well established here in the Seattle, WA area. $100,000 would be for 5-6 Systems to be in use 4-5 nights a week each. It is a lot of money. A lot more than I know most hosts would ever dream of investing in systems right up front.

In the automotive industry, you can buy a Kia or you can buy a BMW. I would like to be on the BMW end of the spectrum. Pro Sound, Pro Lighting, 100% Legal Tracks, Quality Hosts, Great Customer Service, and a lot more (and I mean a LOT more!).

There is much about my business plan that is still in the works. I am going to be doing a lot more than just hosting karaoke at different sites. There is a much larger picture to be painted. It is all about differentiating yourself from the rest of the competition. Creating a value proposition, and pitching more than a karaoke show to a venue. They need to see a clear ROI and I intend to give them that and much more.

As for saturation......my plan is to be the "sponge show" - I am going to drop in and suck all the singers to my venue. If the other hosters don't raise their game then then they will need to update their resumes.

I know this all sounds a bit grandiose and I am sure some of the long time hosters are laughing to themselves about the new guy coming in and thinking he can single handedly change the industry. I said it before - "Go Big or Go Home".

Stay Tuned

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Well, if that's what you want to do, go for it. I wish you the best.

Keep in mind that out of all of those people you train, count on at least one of them putting their own system together and stealing "their" shows.

Second, I know of a guy who invested a ton of money into his system. Total overkill. He knew it all though. Problem with him was that people didn't like him at all. His karaoke shows never succeeded. In fact, when I left for Iraq, he took over my most successful show and ran it into the ground and was later fired. I saw him recently at his newest gig. All I could think was "What an a$$hole!". He's no longer there either.

_________________
I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Sorry Chris but I would be one of those guys,,, in a nice way of course.

Have you hosted before? You should start small, not low quality but with one system. Practice, practice, practice! I have a 3 year plan then I plan on possibly going full time when I move to Toronto. I've been honing my skills, I've scoped out shows in TO and I know I can bring people to the house.


Investing in multiple systems, and insisting they all have the exact same components (you can find quality without having the exact same components and it doesn't have to seem foreign to your customers) is a risky risk. It shrinks your flexibility when it comes to $$$ for the same level of quality.
I don't think you would find any loan institutes that would loan you the money for that big a venture into karaoke off the bat, no matter how nice your business plan looks. And yes, I realize you probably want to do this without a loan, just saying there is a reason they would say no. How long would it take to get all the initial investment back? How much would you lose if you lose interest or it doesn't pan out? Selling equipment sounds like a pain to me! Haven't had to do it.
Lon gave you some good advice, you should take it. Now that all these cheap "lots" of songs are out, no reason to invest your money in a library that is 40% duplicates.
Welcome to the karaoke business, it is fun, there is lots of work and decisions to be made but I have no nagging negativity in the back of my mind asking me why I got into this racket!

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Also, the "Sponge Show"?

Like going to other bars and marketing your show at another bar? That'll work until you get barred. And trust me, as a KJ, I have an eye on everyone, ESPECIALLY rival KJs. The moment I find out you are marketing a rival bar, you will be ejected. Next time, you will be forever barred. Had this happen several times in my day and the bar owner/manager has always been equally or even more pist than me.

_________________
I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

let me add my 2 cents. If you are dead set on getting both Chartbuster and the GEM series, might I suggest in getting the KJMP HD and compuhost, that way you can avoid duplicates between the brands. Yes there are better versions of older country songs on chartbuster, there I have duplicated some songs on my system. Total number of songs doesn't mean a thing if they are half duplicates.

_________________
The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I really do appreciate all the advise. I am listening and I am taking it to heart.

@ripman - I have been hosting for a year and a half. I also have a very good friend who has been hosting for over 20 years as his primary source of income. I know a lot more about the industry than I have let on, but I certainly don't believe I know everything. That is one reason I am on the forums. I want to learn from the experienced folks out there. But I also want to contribute my own thoughts and experiences.

@TroyVnd27 - I specifically said "sponge show" for a reason. Toss a sponge into a puddle and it just sits in place and sucks up the water. That is exactly what I am going to do with my karaoke shows. I want to be the biggest sponge in the puddle (wow....what a horrible analogy). I am NOT going to go to another karaoke show and market myself to their audience. However, I do plan on running a great show, and I will ask the singers to promote the show and get the word out. My hope is that when the word gets out about a great music selection (legal too!), excellent hosting with a fair rotation, awesome sound and lighting, and some other things I have planned, that some singers will check out to satisfy their curiosity. Some of those folks will come back.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Chris, I've been in the business for about 8 years now, and let me lend you some of my experience:

1) KEEP YOUR DAY JOB and start off slow. Don't quit your day job until you have enough gigs to replace that job. Quitting cold turkey to start a karaoke career is going to be next to impossible.

Also, start slow in equipment. There are COUNTLESS KJs on this board that go out and put $5000-8000 of equipment and music on credit cards and justify that they need the latest and greatest stuff to run a successful show. Well MOST of these guys work a single gig for 3-6 months, don't make any money, and now have all their equipment in the garage or on Craigslist for 1/2 of their credit card bill. Unless you have the cash lying around, I'd just get the basics that you need for your show, then cash flow some upgrades once you start making more $$$ than you need.

2) Don't count on the corporate gigs, private parties, and weddings. The most popular night for karaoke is Saturday night. The most popular night for corporate gigs, private parties, and weddings is Saturday nights. I work weekly karaoke nights on Wednesdays and Saturdays, and I do about 12-15 of these side gigs a year BUT, I turn down more than I work because they are on Saturday nights. If you secure enough karaoke gigs to support yourself, you are going to have minimal time to pick up side gigs. Don't count on them, just consider it "found money" when you are able to fit them into your schedule.

3) I have a busy show at the same venue two days a week for almost 8 years. My CompuHost software has a "Fun Facts" section that gives me some singer stats. Last year, a little over 400 unique singers sang at my show. I have 985 discs of songs with almsot 14,000 unique songs. Guess how many UNIQUE songs were sang at my venue last year? 1,185. So theoretically, if I had those 1,185 songs, I wouldn't have needed the other 13,000 or so last year.

Point being, don't get all caught up in needing a s**t-ton of songs. Get a SINGLE good base set, like the SC Foundations and maybe a couple bricks for about $500-600 total, then get the Chartbuster Hard Drive for $200. You can then list the ENTIRE Chartbuster Catalogue in your songbook to have the singer benefit of lots of choises, but only pay for the ones you will actualy use, which you are going to find is going to be about $300-400 for the first year and maybe $100-150 each year after that for pretty much EVERYTHING your singers want.

I wish I could go back and do this. I'm sitting on like and $8000 investment is discs that is now worth about $2000 at market rates. Go digital, forget CDGs.

Good luck!

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

@TopherM - Great advice. Thank you very much. I have no plans to quit the day job anytime soon. Long term maybe, but my business plan allows for me to have a pretty healthy karaoke business and still be gainfully employed at the same company I have been with for 15 years now.

One thing to note in my case is that I will be a multi-host/multi-venue business. I plan on hosting a few nights myself, but most of the hosting will be handled by other DJ's. That frees me up to handle the other engagements that come up. I am training a replacement this month to take over my one show I have starting in January. I will get my Saturday nights back! I will take January looking for another solid multi-night gig at a venue and I already have an experienced DJ on the hook to run that show.

I am actually working on a deal with a well known event organizer in my area. They regularly contract out to different DJ companies to handle the events they plan. I have offered them a dedicated rig and short notice event handling in return for preferred vendor status.

So I may end up doing more private/corp events before the karaoke side of things takes off.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Topher gives good advice. Yes, you want a BMW over a Kia (or new over used), however, you have to be able to make the money to afford the BMW. I'm willing to bet every host would love to make $50,000+/yr on one system but it takes time first of all just to get a gig (lots of competition, especially in saturated areas) and the biggest thing to remember venues and people are cheap.

Not trying to burst your bubble, just giving some reality. It's like what I saw on "Storage Wars" where one guy was going to quit his full time job to buy storage lockers. They see how "easy it is" on tv and think they can do it without knowing all the bad that can happen.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I have been running shows for 20+ years and I would add, don't sweat making the show identical. While I do have a fairly large library in both rigs they are far from identical. However we do rotate them between gigs so regulars get to play with different libraries and choices on different weeks. Don't get me wrong the cores are similar but comedy, specialty and misc are quite different. I have only had 2 or 3 people over the years complain that I was missing a song they HAD to have that week. After I explained that i only had one copy and could only use it with one system (and liked having a house, cars etc.) it wasn't a problem

Well mate.
You have been given so much good advice that I think you are full of passion.
PLAN.
Do it and lose money.
You are doing it because you like to do it.

If you want to make money
Pick another profession.

Right now armaments is profitable.

I've had people working for me over 18 years and only had one out of 20 actually try to do that. Only after he was let go because no one liked him in the club to begin with. Otherwise i've never had that problem. Yes I know it does happen, I think it's more a matter of who one hires. I NEVER hire anyone that WANTS to be a host because they think it would be fun (I did when I started, but most don't last through training because they realize it really IS a job) or hire hosts coming from other companies (most are set in their own ways & not very adaptable to change). Most of my luck have been from people that are just singers but not too full of themselves & don't get caught up in club drama and good with people. I can train the equipment well enough they can adjust for most singers, and once they get better, they usually start adjusting alot better anyway.
Some of my former hosts HAVE started their own companies & I have actually helped them with equipment and given advice as well.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Countless? Name a few. On this board that is. Please.

_________________
KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I haven't read everyone replies, but just giving you the benefit of a bit of experience...

I'm not saying it's impossible, but here are some hurdles and pointers (from 16 years of experience):

1. It is very difficult to find a place that will hire you for more than 2 nights a week. It can happen, but it's rare. So what generally happens is that perhaps you do Wednesday and Friday or Thursday and Saturday, and the club wants your stuff out in between. So now you either have a bunch of extra work moving systems, or you're paying someone to do it, which eats into your profits.

2. If you're doing a lot of moving systems, and then paying other hosts to run most of your shows, most of your time is spent as a roadie. It's not very gratifying when perhaps you're charging $150 per night (maybe $175 if you're lucky), and the giving away $75 to your host and shlepping your equipment in and out, or paying someone additional money to move it.

3. Wear and tear: If someone else is moving your systems, you will find that they don't give a rat's @ss about it, and things WILL break. Expensive things. Also, anyone else running your shows will allow mics to be abused, TVs to be knocked over, etc. Bottom line -- two things: (a) nobody will care about your stuff like you will; and (b) it will eat into your profits to fix things.

4. Diversify. Karaoke's great, but if you can turn yourself into a proficient Disc Jockey, as well, you can market yourself with local talent agencies and open yourself up for higher end gigs. You'll know how to run a wedding like a wedding and not like a bar show. You can make 4x-8x on one wedding than you'll pull on one bar night. Just getting one or two private parties a month can up your yearly income substantially.

It's easy to be idealistic at the beginning. Those of us who have been doing this for a long time started out that way, too.

Just make sure you're being realistic about your market, costs and potential before you sink everything you have into it and quit your regular job. I agree with Topher. Start slow. There's no rush. Build your gigs up, and then build your systems as needed, so you don't have money sitting around in unused equipment.

_________________
Birdofsong

In the couple of weeks I have been on these forums, my wife and I have been discussing our plans to make karaoke (and related activites/offerings) our sole source of income. We have second guessed ourselves countless times. For the time being we are still working toward it but we have decided to change our business plan.

Originally it was a 1 year go for broke plan. Now we are thinking more along the lines of a 3-5 yr take it easy plan. Ultimately for us it is mostly a matter of being able to maintain a lifestyle and quality of life that having two full time, well paying day jobs affords us. I absolutely believe that I can pull that off with karaoke, but there are a number of other factors that come to play.

@birdofsong - I have absolutely considered the "it's not my equipment, why should I take care of it" mentality. I have been working on plans to fight that by giving the hosts more of a stake in the business and hopefully give them a sense of accountability and ownership. I am fortunate that the host I am training now to take over my one gig is experienced and respectful. (also, since I only have one show, at one bar, one night a week, the equipment gets to stay on site which reduces wear and tear dramatically).

In short, I am going to be less aggressive with my plans. Karaoke was always a "Plan B" for me anyway. It has only been in the last 6 months that I ever really considered making it my primary source of income. Much has changed in that time.

For now, I am looking forward to having my Saturday nights back after a year and a half.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris