Karaoke Forums

I would like to start off by saying I am an indecisive person in the first place so it will be hard for me to make these decisions in the first place. So I will appreciate any advice that the members here can offer me on the following questions.

To give you a little bit of background I have never used a computer for karaoke before. Lately I have been talking to some of the other local shows that are using laptops. They have convinced me to at least look into converting over to a computer run show. However my locale karaoke store has been strongly against me going to a computer based system to do karaoke shows. He claims that:
• The shows lose their personal touch with the customers & become boring & dull for the audiences.
• The quality of the songs that are ripped to a computer are not nearly as good as the quality of songs off of the original CD’s. So you lose sound quality at your shows.

So my first question is what are the pros & cons of using a computer system vs. discs to do a karaoke show?

I have been doing a little research on this & other forums & I have come up with some other questions as well.
First off I am going to need programs that will:
• Rip CDG's to a computer
• Organize song files & help to create a naming & directory structure
• Create a song book after my CD's are ripped
• Host a karaoke show & replay the songs. I need the ability to use multiple monitors. I would also need the ability to play a customer’s disc if they bring a particular version of a song they like to the show.

With that being said:
What are the best & easiest programs to use host karaoke shows? I know the best & easiest don't always go hand in hand but I would like to look at all the options.

Are any of the programs capable of doing all of the things that I would like to do without having to use additional programs? It seems like most of the programs that I have come across require separate programs for hosting/ripping/song book creations.

Below are some of the programs I have seen online & questions I have about each program.
• MTU Video Hoster. Is this DJ or KJ specific software?
• Virtual DJ Pro I belive this is DJ software. Is it any good for karaoke hosting? Some of the locale DJ / KJ's seem to like it but it is not mentioned much on this site.
• Sax & Dotty. I have not seen much information about this software.
• Power karaoke.
• Latshaw.
• Compuhost / Fasttracks
• PCDJ
• Tricerasoft

It seems that there are several programs available to host karaoke shows. So what programs is everyone using & why? Like I said I’m new to all of this so I’m just trying to figure out if there is one or two of these programs that really stands out from the rest & if so what makes them better.


Do most of the karaoke programs use the same file formats or does each program use specific file formats?

Will the programs search for songs through a directory structure or do all of the songs need to be saved in the same directory?

Is there a standard naming format that these programs work with or is each program use its own naming system?

Also is there any reason to use MP3+G zipped? It seems that hard disk space is fairly cheap these days so what are the benefits to using a zipped file format?

I also have a few questions about the file formats I have been reading about. From what I understand they have (MP3+G, WMA+G, & MP3+G zipped) & correct me if I'm wrong but these are similar to standard MP3 files only they have a separate graphics file attached to them to display the lyrics on the screen.

Now I have recently come across KMA, BIN, & MCG files & I have no idea what they are. I would be grateful if someone could explain each of these formats to me & what programs create & use these formats as well as the benefits of one over the other.

I have a great concern about how I should set up my file directory structure & file naming system. I really don't like the idea of starting a naming / filing system for 15,000 songs just to find out that I did it poorly or incorrectly & need to redo it. I would prefer to use only the song names & not start messing with tags to organize my files. It would take me too long to edit all of the tags.

Should I group all of the files together in the same directory to make it easy to locate them?
If I do keep them all in the same directory what is the best way to name the files?
Basically from looking around on the web I have found few naming/filing systems that people tend to use. Which one is the best & why?
Here are a couple of the naming systems that I have seen & the concerns that I have with them.

• Disc#-Track# - Artist last name, Artist first name or (The) - Song Title. If I use this method when I try to sort the songs they will be sorted with the disc name. This seems like it would make it very difficult to find the song I needed to play. However it seems like it would be a great way to set up a file structure & know what discs I had at a quick glance. For instance I could have directories for each disc manufacture ex: Chartbusters then inside that directory I could have a sub directory with the disc name for each of my discs.
• Artist last name, Artist first name or (The) - Song Title - Disc#-Track#. With this method I think it would be easier to find a particular song but harder to keep track of new disc’s that you purchase & what disc’s you already own. Also if I use this style would it be easier to group all of the files in the same directory or should I separate each letter into a separate directory for instance a separate folder for A,B,C,D etc. or even combine a few letters into each directory ex: A-D, E-H.

There are probably several other naming methods that everyone is using as well. I very interested in how everyone is organizing their files & why you decided to set it up the way you did.

Sorry for the long post I just have a lot of questions before I jump into something new. Thank you for any help that you are able to provide for me.

I will give you my input and experience. We are a laptop running show, and I can tell you that in no way did this put us out of touch with our audience or make it boring. In fact, just by efficiency standards alone we can get in more singers per hour because of this. To explain this in a little more detail here is why;

* While we do use cheap laptops for our customers to pick their songs from (AND we still have song books for those who just are plain scared of technology ) if you are a good host, you are a good host. People flock to your shows over the other one down the street for several reasons, personality is a big one.

*By using our laptop and our karaoke program we are able to more efficiently move people through the night while giving them more times to sing etc. With our software we can also put "filler music" in between singers automatically, depending on the evening and crowd.

*I have virtual DJ, and while yes, you technically can run karaoke from it...I don't. I use this strictly for my DJ gigs only

*You will get A LOT of different opinions about the other programs you have mentioned. My advice is to try them out and see what works for you. Most of them give you a free trial to see what works for you.

*Yes, for some programs you are going to need multiple other programs to be complete (ripping software, song book creators etc.) What works for ME is ONE program and I love it. It does it all, rips, creates song books, has multiple additional built in programs to help you promote you business name before and during the night on screen, efficiently runs the karaoke show on and on. I would advise you to also check out Kjams and use their free trial. ***Side not to this*** I use Apple products, actually to be specific a Macbook Pro to DJ & Karaoke with. I have used several PCs in the past and would never go back. Again, just my opinion. The reason I say this is, that while KJams has a PC version I have never used it, I can tell you the version for Mac is incredible. (I believe everything offered on the Mac version is available for PC but just want to be clear here)

*As far as naming your songs and putting them into a library I can tell you that when I did mine (over 8K songs when I first did this) that as long as you were connected to the net your disc will be recognized, labeled with all info and put into your song data base. (Again I speak with the KJams Program, others can fill you in on their favorites).
Also, your concerns with the Disc#-Track# - Artist last name, Artist first name or (The) - Song Title can be simply changed with a click in this program too.

Hope this helps. Any more questions feel free to ask. And good luck!

Ok... I can handle War and Peace only once in a while.
Did not manage to read half of your post. (sorry)
My advice would be to regard your locale karaoke store spokes person as being someone with real issues or on drugs.
Happy new year.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22248

That's where you will find a listing of software sites. Plenty of free trials to try out.

I use DigitalKJ. I like it for it's ease of use and all of the extra features that other software doesn't provide. I particularly like the way it focuses on the individual singers, their repertoires and history. I use it as a tool to improve with the "personal touch".

When I bring up a singer's repertoire, with it comes the singer's notes tab that allows me to keep track of birthdays, anniversaries, and any other special information that I want to retain about any and every one of my singers

It has all of the features you mentioned, but I suggest trying out and comparing several to see what you are most comfortable with using.

It's doubtful you will find a single software that does everything for you exactly the way you want it. As you get more into it you will see what I mean.

Check out the page from the link above, try a few out and then read a little deeper into this forum. Most of your questions have been answered here before.

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KNOW THYSELF

Jerry seems to be a bit one-sided. As for your store owner, I see his point to a degree:

You do lose sound quality ( about 60% of all audio information is lost when you rip a disc to MP3), However, it's about 15-20% of people that will notice. Therefore it is up to you to decide if it is worth it to you to keep more customers happy.

The "losing touch" statement is based on the fact that many new PC hosts are too busy playing with their new toy to work as hard on customer interaction as they should. We call this "Mr. Spock Syndrome" as these new PC hosts have a tendency to look like Mr. Spock, blue light reflecting off of his face in front of his sensors. These new PC hosts have a tendency to say "next", and go back to their screens...- ignoring customer reaction and the need to interact and be actual Karaoke Hosts.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Sorry Joe, I see what you mean new toy and all.
We are just so efficient that most of us watch a movie while the karaoke is on.
That must be the blue light thing you mention.
It's bad at the exciting parts, we can nearly forget to say next.

Yep got to say since I have been ripping discs most of the sound has gone.
Don't know how people can sing to them to be honest.

Wow I couldn't even get through a quarter of that post, let alone half.
Karaoke 101 would be a good start and these guys here can put you in the right direction... then making quicker decisions would be a benefit as well, no sense hanging on things and procrastinating for too long.

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MUSIC+DANCE=LIFE

I don't know about converting to mp3. I went with MTU's "Hoster" 5 months ago and it converts songs to a kma files, small and great sounding. They take up very little HD space and sound outstanding. I just run it from my computer to PMP 2000 powermixier then speakers, I can't tell any sound quality change, in fact it sounds better to me. I'm very happy I made the change to a computer, thanks to all the guys at MTU... You need to check out their "Microstudio" also. It helped me clean up hundreds of songs I had that were damaged due to years of use. Two thumbs up on their product line.

Thank you everyone for the replies. I did notice only simpmech had a response on the file structure questions. Maybe no one read that far down the post . How does everyone store their files on the computer in sub directories by disc maker/name or in one larger directory, or do the software programs pretty much take care of this for you?

I did read through the software sticky. It seems that everyone is using a variety of programs. I was kinda hoping there was only one or two standout programs that I would have to try.

Sorry again for the long posts. I just have a lot of questions.

I use MTU Hoster as well, so I don't see a need for any special breakdown of files, I put all my files in one folder which gets indexed by the program for quick searches/access. I do know some people that breakdown their files by disc or artists, I just never saw the need personally.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I put all my files in one folder. I use Karma for my karaoke software. I used to use Sax and Dotty's which worked out fine for me in the beginning, but a few months ago I switched to Karma for several reasons. It doesn't use Winamp as it's audio engine and I love how it handles the singer's rotation to name a few of the things I love about it.

Wow, 60% you really need to get yourself some better equipment and software, it's sad that you loose so much

It's a 'technical' loss, not 'audible' to the higher majority and even less going through a decent sound system to begin with.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That's what I thought, I sure don't have a 60% loss on my mp3's but I do use a good encoder, sound card and a great system Joe must of used a low budget equipment and encoded at a lower bit rate to get that 60% loss And I'm glad to know I fit in the 15-20% of people that will notice

That 60% loss is the sound of CD glitching you no longer hear.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

just keep in mind the old addage "opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink"

from my personal experience

disadvantages

1. time. it will take you a LOT of time to rip a collection of cdg and trust me, it is a major pain in the you-know what.

2. quality - there is a loss of qaulity when ripping to mp3s.. it just depends on wether or not you want the trade off.. If you're that worried about it you can covert your karaoke tracks to wav+g but not as many software programs will support that. also most new music is digitally made in the first place, so shouldn't be as much of a loss in quality with those.

3. money - do you already have a computer that has the minium amount of hardware to run the software you want. If not you may need to get one. even if that's not the case there are still the cost of the monitors *getting cheaper by the day and you can find used ones on ebay but it is still money out of your pocket* and the cost of the software itself. If you want to use kiosks that is another expense you will have to contend with.

3. equipment failure - if the electricity goes out, well you are screwed either way, but if your computer dies is your show going to come to a grinding halt. You could have a switch to switch video sources from a computer to a cdg player and just run your show old school BUT that does mean having to set up extra equipment


ADVANTAGES

1. once you have your collection ripped, it is much easier to deal with. ALL of your music is in one location *hard drive* and You will never have to worry about lost or stolen discs, your collection will never degrade *if your cdg was too scratched up to get a clean rip in the first place there is nothing you can do about that unless you get the disc resurfaced*

2. time - once you get past the hassles of converting, a good host will have more time to spend on what is important, your singers. if you are familiar enough with the software you use, you will also find that you will be able to get more singers up.

3. easier to find updates. Legality issues aside, there are a lot of places that are starting to sell digital downloads, and if a bar has internet access, that means being able to get the song that a person wants to sing qued for the next rotation. if you want to avoid the grey areas of digital downloads then you can always get legal digital collections from people like chartbuster and sound choice. chartbuster also has an 'on demand' kind of solution with the hard drive they sell and works with compuhost. there are plenty of threads around on the medio pro drive.


those are the major things that I can think of.. I will post my opinions on software in another post..

hope that helps

-james

i have found some very obscure tracks for karaoke this way. for example, the song "I'm just a Bill" from schoolhouse rock and "scotty doesn't know" by lustra which was in the euro vacation movie *i had a lot of people I know request this song*

4. rotation management -good software will make this process easier and thus reverts back to number two, more time. However in my own case, I still write everything down just in case the

Really Joe?
Looked like the store owner was being a bit one sided to me.
Both ways can work.

You can start by reading this post:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22248

Don't blame me, blame the product. If you have the capability of using a scope, you will see that I am correct. Not only that, but add in random drop-outs, freq changes, and compressions. No improvement of software or equipment will change that. It just is...

However, I also said that only a very small segment of the market will notice. No reason to get persnickety....

TO JERRY: Please note that my comments in that regard were limited to NEW SWITCHOVERS, rather than experienced PC hosts, who are no longer disctracted by the new toy, and can work as well as anyone.

TO THE OP: Though not PC based myself, in my area MTU Hoster seems to be the most populr software, and from the singer's side, seems to do the job well.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

While MP3 is a "lossy" format, Joe is completely ignoring data compression in his calculations. Simply because a file drops 60% in size does NOT mean that 60% of the information was lost. When a Stephen King Novel is zipped up, the file size drops 60%. Was 60% of the book lost? Absolutely not.

The notion that ANYONE will notice in any scenario other than a controlled environment is completely untrue at 256kbs+. This isn't my opinion, there are plenty of studies on the web that flesh this out.



Irrelevant. People don't listen to music on a scope and you are completely ignoring the science of psychoacoustics, which MP3 use extensively. The human ear/brain cannot process certain frequencies simultaneously, so the MP3 algorithm will eliminate those frequencies that are being masked. Are they gone? Yes. Can any human hear the loss? No.

If you take a sample of the PUREST water and look at it under an electron microscope, you will see bacteria and plenty of nasties happily floating about. Does this mean the water is unsafe or you can TASTE the difference? Nope.