Karaoke Forums

Yes, I know that as a host I am not responsible for the venues licensing. However, I would like to speak knowledgeably to venues considering entertainment for the first time.

Though an ex-owner, what information I have seems woefully out of date.

I checked the sites of both alleged artist organizations, but could find no fee schedule. I have attempted calling both several times, and never could get anyone on the phone or a call back.

One venue owner that I spoke to said he ws told that BMI wants $3.90 per person maximum occupancy, which in his case works out to $3900.oo per year.

This is just a 100 person beer and shot neighborhood bar. No food ( not even a snack tree behind the bar).

This seems way out of line to me.

Is there anyone here who can bring me up to date on BMI fees and how they are now assessed?

Thanks in advance for any help.

PLEASE: This isn't a debate thread. If you have any information in regard to my request, please share it. If not, please go to the next thread. Thanks.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

easiest thing to do is just play music there, ascap or bmi will eventually show up.

then they will look at what the bar has to accomidate people then will give you a fee to pay...

they don't fine you for not calling them first.

they charge by:
dance floor size
seating (how many)
type of music (live, karaoke, radio, tv's that tune to music channels)

radio:
you can operate a home stereo with 2 speakers, but if you have a cd player hooked up it's extra fee.

if you speaker extend into different rooms then it's an extra fee.

see where i'm going? they will charge for everything they can get.

to save alot of money, block out music channels on the tv, because these are video & music.. big extra fee...

a small bar your size should get off with about $300-500 a year for fee's.

but like i said just play the music their and one day a rep. will walk in and start asking questions. then tell you it's time to start paying.

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It's all good!

I check for a bar about 4 years ago, had a seating for 60, fire capacity of 150....

Then you could look up the fees and for them it was around $500.

The bar owner did't want to pay that much, eventually he was called by BMI. The first price was $650, he haggled down to $300. I dunno how that worked, but it did.

Joe, One of my customers just got "notice" from one of the agencies. Regardless, if there's Karaoke or Not...THE BAR HAS TO PAY...

For example, Do they have TV's with audio coming out of the speakers? Then they have to pay...

If there's dead silence...then they don't...

If the bartender plays his iphone? or computer generated music...They have to pay..

Also, it depends on size of the venue...If you want I can send you the PDF files to show you what they sent my customer...

In speaking with my other customers "Bar Owners"...they all are familiar with it....and it's part of owning a bar...

It seems like they are strong arming the small business' but, in all honesty this is how the OLD "artists" & "musicians" get royalties...since no one is buying records or CD's anymore...ASCAP & OTHERS...make bars & restaurants pay!!

Tony

No. Most (70%) of bars do not have to do this. Only if you exceed a certain number of square feet or a certain number of screens (I think 3200 and 6, but it isn't hard and fast).

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Here is the page on general licensing.

You can download the pdf you need.

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/generallicensing.aspx

Here is the rate calculation for BMI. Our club caps at 250 and they pay something like 4.50-5 per night for 7 nights.

http://www.bmi.com/forms/licensing/gl/ede.pdf

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Appreciate that Bazza, but as stated in the first post, all I ever got was a machine. I have left several messages, but to no avail.

Their site lists no fee schedule. It DOES list what they want to license.

I wonder why they are so reticent about listing the actual fees- I figure it would be more helpful than not.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

So about 35.oo / week, or $1820.oo per year for 250 max?

This is why I was looking for a fee schedule. Maybe there is a rate difference based on what is included at the bar ( Internet Jukebox, 4 or mor TVs, dance floor, food, etc...), and now - thanks to you- I know that they can be haggled with.

The thing is, the schedule reads as quantitive.

1 night of karaoke is 3.05 per person maz occ. per year, but if you also have a band one night ( 4.10 by itself) it becomes
$7.15 per. If a cover is charged they want an additional $1.70 per, making it $8.85 per. Dancing? more.

A beer and shot bar that hold 100 paying $8850.oo to BMI for having a band one night per week, and karaoke the same? Things have really changed over the years.


Thanks for the link, Lon.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not sure how you came up with that figure. By my reckoning.....

1 night or less of karaoke is $2.95, not $3.05.

So, for 1 night of karaoke per week and 1 night live band per week with cover charge, with no other TV or music or dancing, would amount to $8.75 per occupant per year =
$875 per year for 100 occupancy.

= $787.50 if paid in full with 10% discount.

Um, got the 3.05 and 4.10 direct from the link to the schedule that Lon provided. Don't know where your 2.95 or 10% discount came from.

However, your are correct about my addition- it would be $885.00 per year, not 8850.oo that I originally posted. For that, I can't thank you enough!

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

when ascap came to our bar, they gave a price and the owner told them he couldn't afford it. so they negociated a price he could afford and also made ascap happy.

so again wait tell they physically come to your bar!

negociate on that fee!

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It's all good!

Actually, my bars already have it. The bar in question is one that has shown an interest in entertainment for the first time, and I am trying to be informative in hopes of possible future business.

Nevertheless, I will inform him that haggling is a definite way to go!

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Well, the $2.95 I got direct from the link to the schedule that Lon provided. Its in section 2. of page 3. The line is ....

(1 night= no more than 5 times in any one month) 1 night or less $2.95

The $3.05 is for 2-4 nights.


The 10% discount I got from the bottom of page 3. The relevant text is......

IF PAYING IN FULL, PLEASE TAKE 10% DISCOUNT......

ANNUAL FEE (Less 10% Full Pay discount, if applicable)



You wouldn't want to scare them off with misinformation now, would you?

Got it. I wasn't clear about the number of night that the venue was interested in having, which was 2. However, I did miss the 10% discount that you caught. Thanks again!

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."