Karaoke Forums

I think I read something about this and the reason was the KJ was not getting paid by the bar so his income was derived from the "Donation"

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

I guess I should defend myself here! I'm surprised by the backlash that my #4 rule has caused. I should say that the rule has been in effect for approx. 2 years and I've received 2 - $20 tips for a bump. Both those happened in the same night... 2 different people of course. NOBODY complained and my venue has no problem with it....especially since I had to take a $50 reduction in pay over 2 years ago. The reason I put in that rule was because of people (at that time) frequently would want a bump... over and over I would be asked....over and over I would say no... and THAT upset the people! Once I put the rule in, when someone would ask for a bump I would tell them that there is only one way I will bump. Funny, they would say "I can't pay $20... but thanks anyway"... they would go away without any anger because they knew that a bump was possible and up to them weather they did it or not. One of our other gigs (different KJ), has had it happen once.. and no one got upset over it then either.
So, you can think I'm making a mistake by having the rule or not.. it works here just fine. And is alot more fair than me juggling the rotation at will just because no one can see what I'm doing. I don't juggle ever.

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I should remind... this is only allowed one time per person per night.... yes, Johnny sings a song, and wants to sing another...technically he can tip $20 and sing the next song. However, if he didn't take care of it before getting up to sing, I won't allow him to come off the stage and tip, pick another song and get back on stage. I won't let something like that slow the show down.
My customers don't get upset at all..... one song = 3-4 minutes... they have no problem with it. Especially since they know I am always fair with my rotation.

It works here. (twice in two years!)

I don't know if this rule has anything to do with it, but I'm getting more tips now also... just because I do a good show and they like me. (tips went from pretty much zero to $10-$20 per night)

Oh, and my regulars... they think it's funny that someone would spend $20 to get up on stage one more time than they would without a tip. Ego is an amazing thing.

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You're right, I have had this happen also.. and it's tricky. But say for example I have 18 singers... #12 is singing and 10 people sign up all at once. I put them 2 at a time inbetween old singers.. .at the 2 & 3, then 5 & 6, 8 & 9 , 11 & 12, 14 & 15 (I will wait to put in the last two until the original #15 has sung). Or something similar... It's a hard call and thank goodness doesn't happen often. I usually get no more than 4 at once... except at the very beginning when it's first come, first served.

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I don't agree with Bruce often, but this is how I run my rotation. The only issue I see to debate this method with is regulars that may work late but come in and spend money every show. This hasn't been an issue with me but if it were, I would encourage that person to text me and give me their first song and when they would be here and I could place them in the rotation and keep everyone happy.

To me, if you are hanging out at other bars, and just show up, I'm not going to throw you in the middle of the pack, you go to the bottom of my list, just below the last person that either sang or just turned in their first request. That's basically why I don't have a start and finish to my rotation.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

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Where would you have the host put them in wolf? One way or the other the current singer is going to have to wait for all the singers from the "old" and "new" rotations,,,, unless the host told the new singers that they have to wait until everyone that was in the "old" rotation got to sing two more times. I don't follow what you are suggesting, please explain.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

I agree Pileman (OOPS, I really meant "Ripman8"!! sorry 'bout that ).. gotta put them in somewhere.. and more and more
as I think about my previous reply, I don't like what I said about the 2 at a time
in-between old singers.
Putting new arrivals at the end of the list shouldn't happen UNLESS it's the
beginning of the night where there are only 5 'old' singers. (Um, 9:05pm? )
Once I get to my 10 original singers, new singers go just before the current singer
sings again. IF 10 sign up.. I guess I'd have to say, they go in the same spot,
just before the current singer sings again. I'm glad 10 all at once is a very rare occurrence.

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All of my shows are "Sign-Up Opens at:". This means, the books go out about 15 minutes before and then I turn on the kiosk at that time and begin taking requests. My regulars know to submit more than one song request at the start because they will get more chances to sing early as more people begin to arrive.

I start the show when I have five song requests submitted (via CompuHost). I include myself and my assistant (if I have one) among the first 5.

I then take the next 10 song requests and put them before me creating the first "set". When my list reaches 15 singers with requests in the queue, I remove myself from the list. It may be obvious, but I like singing karaoke. I treat my list just as I would if I were an attendee. I don't get to go out to karaoke and not work, so I sing at my shows. 15 singers is, with transitions and banter, approximately an hour long rotation.

Chris' lower limit for influence, as he stated, is $1000. I've joked that I will do it for no less than $100 and I've actually made about $1000 bucks over the last three years. Tipping is accepted in the resort communities where I host shows. 4 or 5 minutes of wait time hasn't made anyone angry enough to tell me or the venue about it. If I get the random $20 dollar offer, I usually just give the singer my place in the rotation or tell them to take the offered bribe and by a round of drinks because the wait just isn't that long. Tips or bribes (whatever makes you comfortable) are always handled with discretion by me, but the people who want to throw around hundred dollar bills usually want the attention.

That being said the rotation method that I use means you go in the list based on the time you signed up. I display ALL of the singers that are waiting in CompuHost's on-screen scroller. That is usually 18-25 names. I refer to that display 5 or 6 times and hour as well as announcing the next 3 or 4 singers as I am introducing the next. I give a one song "grace period" to NEW singers who don't respond to their name being called and displayed on the screen. If they haven't spoken with me by the time the singer on stage is finished, they are dropped from the list. After mid-night, there is no grace period. If you aren't visible or moving towards the stage by the time I've called your name 3 times, you're off the list and have to re-submit if you want to sing.

I always have late nighters coming in (workers and partyers) and asking how long the wait is and if they can be bumped. I tell them that I am there every week and my rotation is my reputation. I tell them that the people who have been there 3+ hours, singing and spending are counting on me to be fair to everyone. It seems to me that it is mostly the attractive women who aren't used to hearing a guy say no to them are the ones who get the most upset. Guys usually just try $$ or drinks to persuade me, to which I tell them, 1. I have a tab at my shows, so I don't need a drink and 2. I tell them if they're serious, the bidding starts at $100. This usually shuts them down, but if not, I've got an extra $100 bucks and at least one happy customer. No one has ever complained.

My total singers sign-up averages around 30 on Thurs, Fri, Sat nights but frequently tops out over 40 without any predictability. Most people are impressed that they can see the entire list of singers and that their name does not "slide" back in the rotation. I used to get accusations when I used sign-up slips. Now, if someone doesn't understand the process and accuses me of "juggling", I inform them that every song submission is time-stamped and that no one gets skipped. I think that is the one benefit I value most; the ability to clearly demonstrate the integrity of my rotation. Smaller, week-night totals of 15-20 usually don't cause any angst as the queue at any given time is only about half an hour.

The ability of singers to put up to 4 song requests in at one time also helps to "seed" the list with new singers as anyone who is signing up for the first time while a song is being sung, will be entered into the list and will sing before the current singer sings again. Realistically, this means 4 or 5 singers, at most, could get into the queue ahead of your next song, but it usually means that one or two may actually get in line in front of you. Of course, it is not a line but a circle.

When I call a name and that person is not there, I often get the question "What song is it?" and "I'll sing it." I simply explain that if someone signed up and was not present or ready when their turn comes up, they forfeit their turn and everyone else gets to sing that much quicker. This leaves more time at the end for last minute requests. People seem to accept this and singers who haven't sung yet and been waiting are pleased that the wait time has been shortened.

I am going back to my coffee now, before it gets cold. Y'all have my $.02

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Never the same show twice!

That may have been our member JR's show....

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

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Usually it's the large pictures that make the page so wide that I have to scroll side to side to read for every line of text. I thought I'd try this experiment to see I can make it even wider than ripman did. I simply copied ripman's line three times.
It sure makes it hard to read. Sorry about the annoyance. I'll edit mine out later.

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I tend to see it more as "Flagman Syndrome." Sometimes you are the first car to get stopped and have to wait and sometimes you are the car that arrives just as they are letting people through. That's life.

Maybe a latecomer gets in right away but on a busy night they will have as long a wait as anyone for their next song--possibly even longer than the early birds did for their second or third songs.. Inserting them elsewhere will still make it a longer rotation time for the early birds, no matter how it is done. And who is to say that the early birds won't be staying the entire night anyway and the latecomers will party into the night and support the bar even more than the early birds did. If you end up with 30 singers on the list, you will still even out to a 2 hour wait per song with the shorter waits probably only happening at the very beginning or end. I'm not sure why anyone would go to a karaoke show and expect the wait not to grow longer as more people arrived at the bar.

I do think PyleDriver's "Clock Rotation" is the fairest but still doesn't mean that the early birds won't have a progressively longer wait as the list grows. And it takes a bit of maintenance and explaining as to why people aren't always folloing the same person. If I had a computer I would do it that way but it is a bit of a hassle on a dry erase board. May give it a try someday and give people something new to complain about.

Sometimes I think Rotation Protests are part of the sport of karaoke for some. I see people on here say they will walk out at the slightest perception that things aren't going their way, regardless of how much fun they could have had otherwise. But I have to wonder if they are just the squeaky wheels. The best attended shows around here have rotations set totally at the whims of the KJs as far as the better singers get more turns, slow songs are skipped, etc.. You get some complaining bitterly and walking out, leaving an otherwise packed house behind them. We don't skip people and that got turned into the bad rep of "letting just anyone sing." Last night I had some visitors used to those other shows on my case for allowing slow songs. Different strokes, I guess--not sure if there is an exact universal answer that would fit every situation.

And furthermore......when I read Lisah's $20 thing I took it more as a humorous deterrant rather than something she routinely put into practice. She may well use it here and there but probably not to the point that most regulars wouldn't understand or get a laugh out of it. And it's an equal opportunity bribery option, not playing favorites. People really do get their fur up over such things--4 minutes extra ruins someone's night????? It is not something I would do but if she has 100 butts in the seats each night, that votes more loudly than one butt walking out as far as management would see it. If things swung the other way, my guess is she would re-evaluate.

It really depends on when they come in (who is singing and what time it is).
If I had 10 singers and they came in when #4 was singing and it is early,
I would most likely put them at the end of the rotation which would be after #10.
If they happen to come in when #9 is singing I would make them wait 1 entire round
and then put them after #10.
Due to the fact on an average for a 3 minute song it usually takes about 3:15 to 3:45
for that singer to get to the stage, sing, and then get off so the next singer can get up.
I don't run a cattle rotation where I expect the next singer to be standing by the stage
when the last singer is almost finished, some take a little longer to get up there and leave,
due to age, didn't hear their name called, etc. with those averages a 10 singer rotation can
take up to 40 - 45 minutes, and longer for songs that run longer.

I don't want to have to explain to the #1 singer why he has to wait so long for his second
song just because 10 people walked in 3 minutes before he is supposed to sing next.
As to the 10 that just walked in they just have to realize that there are people that have
been waiting and they will just have to wait their turn.

Now if it's just a single singer I would drop them in just like Pyledriver said.
or if it was a couple of singers I would mix them in somewhere within the up coming rotation.

It all comes down to "It's your show" and your regulars know how you run "Your" rotation
and must like it or they wouldn't keep coming back. No one's rotation is perfect it doesn't exist.

I don't know what I would do if I had 25 singers sign up when I started the show, and then
more came in later....someone is not going to get to sing....."KARAOKE STARTS AT 9:30"
come early get a good seat and a good place in rotation or just sit there and listen.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

As Lizard says, the $20 thing is kind of a joke. IF someone wants
to pay it, yes I will follow my own rule, but like I said before... twice
in two years! My regulars do get a kick out of someone that
can't wait to get onstage and pays $20 for it! They also like me
and don't begrudge me the tip. The venue manager also thinks I
deserve it, especially since 'corporate' took away my bonus. I used
to get $50 bonus for a bar till being over $1200. I do this regularly,
and back then the bar was doing $4,500 and more.

Times are hard here.. they laid off cocktail waitresses and bar backs.
Cut back the bar hours and closed the restaurant (they serve dinner
in the bar now). But this is still my highest paying gig. And I do
regularly but 100 tushes in the seats.. AND get them dancing. It's
a good job

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Lizard,
You use a dry-erase board? That seems like it would a quite a bit of extra
work.. ?
Back before I used a computer... I put all the slips in a pile.. started
playing with the top slip (I put in a slip/placeholder for myself also).
Once the stack was 10 or so high I started with the 'rotation',
when a new singer came up, I put their slip face down on the "just sang
pile".. that way it was just like now with computer, the new person
sings just before the currently singing person.
When I got to the last slip in the pile, I just turned over the 'just sang' pile
and started again.. new singers were interspersed within that pile. Of course
I would have to count slips for people that wanted to know how long
before they were up.. I would however, announce the next four in the
line-up once in awhile.

This was why I would hide the slips if I had to leave my table... .too easy
for someone to mess with it

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We use the rotation you wouldn't like--straight line--once someone is in it, their name on the dry erase is their place holder plus it is easy for us to see who is next as far as announcing. Plus when people come up to dispute the order, we can point to where they are on the board or they can just see it for themselves so they don't have to keep asking.

We also have a few strings of line attached to the side of one rack case. It has clothespins on it and we keep people's slips there. So they can hand us one slip at a time or else give us a pile of what they want to sing--they will either say do it in the order they have it or tell us to pick. It is very low tech but it does save alot of time from people wanting to constantly hand in slips. We could just go by the order we have the slips in by the dry erase is easier for us to see in the dark as far as staying on top of who is next.

We are in limited spaces, usually. We have knocked piles of slips off the table before so the clothespins keep them in order and out of the way.

Ok, yeah, I see the efficiency of it the way you describe.
I hate writing on a board.. my handwriting sucks after using
a computer for so many years!
The straight line way wouldn't work for the people here ...
I do like the clothes pins! good idea

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lll

Huh? Actually I'm trying to make it EASY to distinguish between what I am quoting and what I am saying. I just looked a couple times and I don't see how it makes the entry any wider than any other. Maybe you should buy a bigger screen computer.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Um... the messages are running off the screen for me too now..
Wasn't happening earlier. I am hitting the return key so that
my message doesn't require side scrolling..
Maybe when we get to page 6 things will go back to normal

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RipMan, maybe just don't use such a long
sequence of characters?
@@@@@ ?
I'm using 17' screen...but I don't
think that has anything to do with it...

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