Karaoke Forums

This is from tricerasoft's site. It's the first part of their terms of service:

1. All Songs are sold for USE and permission for KJs, Enthusiasts, or Private/Home entertainment. Songs can not be sold, redistributed, or shared. You agree to be the sole user of the content and each receipt will represent ONE copy of the song for use as a KJ, Enthusiast, or Private/Home user.


Why can't we do this with other providers? What do they need to offer this? What do we need to do to get them to do this?? Why doesn't SC offer this??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

as far as anyone has been able to fill in, all tracks are for private use even on disc UNTIL the venue pays the appropriate PRS fees (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC) for public performance.
as for downloads, the manu just pays for a different license, one for download distribution as opposed to disc distribution (Per Harrington).
taking what has been put out here over time, my opinion taking all that information in is that Tricerasoft said they are paying any license deficiencies that the manus may have missed, and with Mr Harrington confirming that a download license does exist, and their long list of manus, and the fact they are partnered with CB for streaming and downloading through their KJams software (https://karaoke.kjams.com/wiki/Music_Store/Chartbuster), i am inclined to believe them.
currently the only ones saying that downloads are not ok for commercial use are the SC hardcore cheerleaders.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

They are a member of this forum an often post. Hopefully you will get an answer from the "horses mouth"!

There is a way to get the license needed for downloads in the USA. It's chase down every copyright owner of the songs and get their permission to do so, paying whatever that party wants to be paid. Watch the downloads become increasingly more expensive as they get permission for the Eagles stuff.
That is the only way in the USA to do it. No such single entity exists where they can grant the permission needed like the UK has.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Because if SC offered digital downloads they couldn't sue people for media-shifting - the golden goose would be killed. They are the only provider that doesn't offer content as a digital download - with the exception of their digital format rental program, which can be revoked.

Pop Hits Monthly doesn't have a digital downloads service
Chartbuster downloads only apply with the purchase of the KJ Media Pro drive.
Chartbuster Streaming is for non-commercial use.

And there is still much debate and uncertainty about the legality of many karaoke download sites.
Technically 99% of all karaoke ever released is available online.
That doesn't make it legal to use commercially.

So to say that Sound Choice is the only manu that doesn't offer content as a digital download is not entirely accurate.

-Chris

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-Chris

I assure you that our ability to implement our anti-piracy program would not be lessened one iota by offering digital downloads, because if we did that, the downloads would carry indicia that would make then unusable to cover up infringement.

The reason why we don't is because the licensing is too difficult and expensive. If that changes, expect to see it.

They do have a stream for commerical use license as well. I just wouldn't want to rely on an internet connection for a pro show. Because we can ALWAYS trust and rely on the internet to give us a strong solid signal for hours at a time night after night - correct!?!?!? I've NEVER had any buffering problems where a song would start playing & then stop waiting for more info to load up. That NEVER happens.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Ok, so it's legal in the UK, can that music be used here, if you buy it from the UK site?? My thing it this, I do NOt want any BS from SC. I do NOT want their inspectors, I don't want their audits, I don't want their accidental lawsuits. I DO want to run off a computer because I don't want to waste money on disks just to chew them up on the job. Whatever disks I buy I want to stick in a draw and use them for back-up purposes only. I don't want any of this BS that the big three and ESPECIALLY SC are giving people. Even if you are legal, you are looked at as a potential criminal, no matter what Harrington says.

As for streaming, I was thinking about doing that, but Lonman is right, if you lose signal in the middle of a song or the venue's WiFi goes down, you are pretty well screwed.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Paradigm, you know that I am about as far away from being and SC cheerleader as one can get. However, if that is their stance, then I am in full agreement.

DannyG nailed it perfectly:

There is a way to get the license needed for downloads in the USA. It's chase down every copyright owner of the songs and get their permission to do so, paying whatever that party wants to be paid. Watch the downloads become increasingly more expensive as they get permission for the Eagles stuff.
That is the only way in the USA to do it. No such single entity exists where they can grant the permission needed like the UK has.


I don't care what someone puts on their site. If a track is licensed in the U.S. for download for use as a KJ ( no one cares about home use), then it would be very easy to include a text file of the documentation showing the same for that provider. This would be for each track. This would keep the responsibility for licensing on the providers shoulders.

Since no one does that, and since no ( despite repeated requests) one has ever come up with a copy of any U.S. general license similar to the UK's ( because it doesn't exist), It would have to be my opinion that a download based show is operating without any licensed music.

I am not judging, just making an observation.

On the other hand, there is the possibility that download based hosts who call those who have media shifted without asking SC first "pirates" may be living in fragile glass houses....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

But SC does offer some of their tracks on Karaoke-Channel It doesn't have their logo but most tracks found on this site are from SC and Karaoke Version (French)

It's stated that those are for home use, only.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

If you download from a site who's terms of service say the karaoke is usable by KJs and there is no SC involvement SC should have an interest. I am talking specifically about Tricerasoft, not some iRC program.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I know... but Rick said that SC wasn't offering any digital download when in reality they do!

Karaoke Channel content is owned and controlled by Stingray, although it was originally created by SC and although it was licensed back by SC for distribution on discs. SC is no longer involved in the distribution of that material and hasn't been for nearly 5 years.

So is this music ,usable in this country, for KJs, or not?? I can do a lot of supplementing with their music if I need to, as long as it's legal. Plain English and not legalese please.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

yes, it is usable.

"There is a way to get the license needed for downloads in the USA. It's chase down every copyright owner of the songs and get their permission to do so, paying whatever that party wants to be paid."

correct....they have to do that anyway for the sync license......


"If a track is licensed in the U.S. for download for use as a KJ ( no one cares about home use), then it would be very easy to include a text file of the documation showing the same for that provider. This would be for each track. This would keep the responsibility for licensing on the providers shoulders."

and the same for CD. prove that they paid for the license, is that too much to ask?

@harrington....
is it true that a download removes the liability from the manufacturer and places it entirely on the shoulders of the KJ?

@Smoothedge69....
Sunfly and Zoom at the minimum have stated that they are going to each publisher directly and not using the U.K. MCPS licensing methods to allow them to properly license the music for worldwide use. Tricerasoft is on this forum and had a huge thread about it months back and everything was covered except the myth that downloads can not be licensed for U.S. commercial use......Mr. Harrington has dispelled that myth, so i see nothing for you to be worried about. i use their downloads in my show.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Thank you. That works because with WiFi, I can get songs on the fly.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

It's not too much, but no one asked for a comparison. However, running a show off of the original manufacturers' discs leaves the bulk of any liability on the mfr., not the host. At worst, a host could get hit with a "cease & desist" if the owners got involved, but any licensing issues would remain with the manufacturer.

As much as people like to argue about it, a download is not the original mfrs. media, because that remains in the mfrs. possession. It is actually non-existant ( like the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it) until the file is re-created on the downloader's PC. Unless the site assumes the responsibility of licensing, and adds CYA documentation to the download, the responsibility and liability for the newly created file is that of the downloader.

All that being said, someone will disagree with the above- and it just doen't matter. No one requested the comparison for the purposes of this thread.

So:

Licensing for downloads is required just about everywhere, and that includes the U.S. EVERYTHING has to be licensed here. .Such licensing is available in the UK, but I have seen no evidence of the general availability of such licensing here. Until I do, I cannot in clear concience recommend that anyone use them for show purposes.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The liability in using a purchased download would be no different than that of a purchased CD as long as there is evidence of purchase. That evidence has been provided with every song I have purchased through download.

As far as the manufacturer or distributor providing details of their licensing agreements, that isn't happening with CDs either. As stated here before by Tricerasoft and HarringtonLaw, licensing agreements are tightly held trade secrets between the parties to the agreement. It is unreasonable to ask that these agreements be made public. A statement from the manufacturer saying that their licensing is in order should be and always has been sufficient (even if it isn't a truthful statement).

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KNOW THYSELF