Karaoke Forums

If another KJ gets called for a gig, but they're already booked, and they refer the prospective client to you, should that KJ get a cut from that gig?

I've been in the business for about 6 years, working under a couple experienced hosts and learning the ropes for a good chunk of it.

One of the hosts I've worked with a lot got asked to do a Jack & Jill by a friend of his. He was busy that weekend, so he called me up and said he has a gig for me. Pays $X-amount. This date. This time. Can you do it? I said sure, why not? Sure it's a low price for a private gig, but I was willing because I had nothing to lose and experience to gain.

Turns out, he later told me he charged them more than what he told me I would be getting and he was taking a 1/3 cut. Now this is how we used to handle it when I would fill in, but it was before I had my own equipment, my own name, my own reputation, my own following. I was filling in as a sub using his equipment, so it was "still his gig."

But now that I'm more well established, this seems unfair to me. Sure, it's nice to refer a client to me if you're booked, but it doesn't seem fair that he gets a cut (or even has a say in the price for that matter) if I'm the one who's doing the show with my own setup.

I want opinions. Granted, this KJ that got me this Jack & Jill has done a lot to help me get established, but I still question whether it's fair that he gets a cut if he seals a gig for me.

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"K-Jay"
www.kjayskaraoke.8m.com

I have done it both ways ways if I were to give a show to another, sometimes i'd work it with a cut to myself, sometimes not - and vice versa, if I accepted a job with what I would do a job for, then that was my bad for not negotiating higher. If you were happy with the pay offered, then there wouldn't be any problems.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you got paid the amount you agreed to when offered the gig it shouldn't be a problem. Now you know to ask for more the next time.

If he wants a cut from what he told you would be paid to you, then that's a problem because he needed to be up front about that. In that case the loss should be his and not yours.

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KNOW THYSELF

Being a friend, he should have been up front with the amount the gig was paying, giving you a more informed platform to accept the deal or turn it away. BUT, you were hired by him? If so, then... you agreed to the price he wanted to pay you. (morally I still think he should have told you he was taking a 'finders fee') BUT, if you were hired by the venue.. .then you should have negotiated with them. Sounds like you were hired by your friend.

He could have just recommended you to the venue, and they could have called to hire you. There would be no guarantee they WOULD call though.

Lesson learned... Next time just tell him you want more. The exposure is good for you though. I've done free stuff for just the exposure... (not a lot though )

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Did he tell you he was taking 1/3 before or after you did the gig? If he told you before, then you should have spoke up. Now he thinks you'll do it for that price all the time... If afterwards, then call him and ask for a kiss. (You know the rest of the line). Really, its time to either spread your wings, or be content in your little nest you made...

Jon

IMO, no, unless the KJ is your Agent. The KJ in question has referred the client to you, then you should be dealing directly with that client. He's already booked for the day in question and can't be in 2 places at the same time. I've gotten a few calls from clients looking to book a private party. When I knew that I wouldn't be available on the date in question, I would just give them the name and number of another KJ (and they could discuss availability and price amongst themselves).



I agree with you 100%. As long as you are using your own equipment, and your own transportation, and setting up/breaking down on your own, why should the other person get a dime for your work and effort? I knew of a KJ who used to do this all the time.... He used to go out and double-book regular events at bars. Then he would call up other KJs who weren't doing a show (like me), and ask if they wanted to fill in. He would say what the gig paid (usually $200), but then would add that he expected a $25 cut. I always refused his offer. I told him point-blank, "I didn't come to you asking for a gig. You came to me because you were in a bind and needed someone to fill in."

Now, as for him telling you that the gig pays $xxx, and then later telling you that it actually paid more, and he took a cut off the top... that's just sleazy!!!

Not unless the club already had a contract with that KJ & the KJ was subcontracting the gig out to another - this happens all the time. Again, sometimes it works out where the sub kj gets the full pay or whatever the contracted kj wants to pay the sub. Nothing wrong with it if all parties are happy. Next time speak up and say HEY, what are they paying you!?!? Let's work out a better deal!
Just like in construction - a place hires a construction company and they subcontract out the work for a cut - VERY common, karaoke is no different than any other business that can subcontract work out.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It's called backbooking. Perfectly fine. They were acting as an agent for you. If you didn't like the amount they were offering you, then you could have said no. Basically, if they didn't get the call, you wouldn't have the gig.

I've done it both ways. It depends who I'm referring to. We have a friend that fills in for us on occasion. We don't backbook him. We just refer him to others. Then they call him and they will book directly with him. We don't see any money.

Other times, we'll book the gig and then subcontract out to someone else. It's rare, but it does happen. And we've definitely been on your end of things -- backbooked by others.

I think you're looking at a personal element here, and this is simply business. He may have more connections than you, so he may get more calls. That can work to your advantage, as long as you feel you're being paid fairly.

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Birdofsong

I was sat in my dressing gown Saturday night, when the "Bat Phone" went at 6:30.

Another company had sent out a DJ who turned up at the venue and decided not to bother????. A 30th birthday Disco/karaoke was supposed to start at 7. Because my brain was thinking load the car and get to the venue (15-20 minutes away), I told the other company I'll call them and discuss the money on route.

On route we were told that they charged £110 cash on night, more concerned about the family waiting for their entertainment, I pulled a face and advised the company that this is a one off and I never normally go out for that price.

We had music playing at 7.05 and karaoke set up by 7.15 and a client who was over the moon with our rescue mission and quite angry with the original company, especially when they realised they could have booked with us directly and saved themselves several phone calls between 6-7. At the end of the night they gave us £110 and it transpired they had paid a £50 deposit on top of that.

I know they complained to the original company, because in their eyes the deposit essentially became a fee for them phoning another DJ last minute - which with the yellow pages the client could of done.

I'll never work for the company again, I agreed to £110 so that was my fault. Knowing they made £50 is galling especially when I said £110 is too low and sofa to fully set up in 45minutes is a lot of work. Importantly, and this is the main reason I won't do it again for them, they never said thank you.

Edited for clarity

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

I don't have a problem with the practice. I have filled a night or two doing weddings at a local "all-inclusive venue" for half of what I usually make on my own. I also take a similar cut from my sub-contracted guys, and I tell them part of my cut is for equipment and the other part is marketing. The paying gig, to me, is like a "deal" in the sales world, where the guy who makes the sale gets rewarded for it.

One more thing: Did you get a contract up front? If you had, you wouldn't have run into this surprise afterwards. You would have known about it ahead of time.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

I agree with Lisah.........doesn't sound like they were upfront, and you didn't learn of the 1/3, until after you had commited. Not much you can do this time, or you can make your new agent and yourself look bad by bailing out(if you didn't sign a contract). Next time, and I'd get things in black & white with these people.

ps.....1/3 for a refferal, because that's all it was.........rediculous...... .........next time, tell him to have them call you........you made him look good, saved a party, and that's the thanks you get.....10% to him, if you're feeling generous....

You accepted to do the show at the price he gave you. Now next time you should ask how much is being paid for the full gig. In most cases in a referral an 80-85% of the full gig is fair. Remember without the referral, you wouldn't have the gig.

Bottom line, get all the info before accepting. Once you say yes, you have committed.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

A third is too much. I don't know what 'jack & jill' is...guessing a childrens party? Though for us, that doesn't matter, a private gig is a private gig... we charge $100 - $125 per hour. May make concessions if the place is easy to setup and/or they're return customers. So if we hired a KJ/DJ to work for us.. using his equipment, we would take $25. If we refer someone and they are hired BY the customer... that's it.. no 'finders fee'. Just depends on who sets up the details. Directions how to get there, where set up is to be, any sort of consultation... if we do all that stuff we earned the 20%. If I just give out a name for the customer to call...I haven't earned a dime.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Interesting input. This helps a lot!

I'll admit, I agree that a small cut as a 'finders fee' makes sense to me. As many have said, without them, I wouldn't get the gig or the exposure. But I am glad to see most agree with me that a 1/3 cut is too large.

What is typically a reasonable cut for a finders' fee? This person is a karaoke host full-time. His name is well known, so he does have connections and I do benefit when he sets me up with gigs... but I don't want to be cheated either. Is 15-20% reasonable?

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"K-Jay"
www.kjayskaraoke.8m.com

if you agreed to the fee without asking any questions then it's all on you. no hard feelings. it's better then getting nothing at all, right?

myself i probably wouldn't have asked any questions either an accepted it for the the same money, and been very happy because it was i night that i wouldn't have made any money.

so 2 extra bones i my pocket, hell yeah!!!

and after the fact, if i found out he made more on top of the show i did for him. then i would ask next time what is he getting paid to do the show.

ask this question first before accepting:

who's paying me, you or the bar?

if it's him then ask:

how much are you making for the gig and how much am I getting?
then you can guys can work a deal out before accepting the gig.

but remember, there is always someone that will do it for cheaper!
so don't burn your bridges.

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It's all good!

My friend has a shop where one function is making drive shafts for individuals and auto repair shops, and sometimes I'd deliver for him. One day, a guy comes in, and wants to know and see everything that went into his $800 drive shaft, since the repair shop told him, this is where the shaft came from, when he inquired. My buddy pulls the invoice, and it confirms what he already knows......he charged the shop $165 for the shaft..........totally true story, no exagerations......get my drift?
$100 show for $150.........$200 show costs $300...... puka

I think 15% - 20% is reasonable. You wouldn't get the work otherwise? But I don't think that a finders fee is due at all if the customer calls you directly and says that so-n-son gave them your number.

It's true that you should know up front what you are getting and what he is taking from it.

Judgement call

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

If you agreed to the price he quoted you, then there was no being cheated! He didn't have to call you and you didn't have to accept.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

THis is true. If the other kj gave the show your number & they call you directly, then the other kj don't need to get anything, he was just passing on a referral.
If the show hired the other kj & then they (the other kj) turns around and hires you, then yes whatever you agreed upon for pay is what you would get regardless of what they are making.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Yup! Problem solved! For once it seems we all agree on somethin' ! I get such a laugh sometimes reading here.... the arguments .. me included

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!