Karaoke Forums

Actually, they're not completely under my control. If you were operating in North Carolina, or Alabama, or Arizona, or any of the other states where I have primary responsibility, I would have absolutely no problem guaranteeing that you wouldn't be sued for playing your discs. I don't need a "license to be sloppy" because I'm not sloppy, period.

But you're asking me to speak for attorneys who may not know who you are. I don't even know whether we have investigators in Michigan or not. They're certainly not under my control if there are any. Since I can't control what they do, I certainly am not going to speak for them.



I find it humorous that you accuse others of being paranoid.

I think it is a perfectly reasonable business risk for you to play your discs right now, today. The chances of being sued over it are so small that they aren't really worth considering. But you asked for some assurances and I told you what you could do to soothe your fears. If you really are that afraid of us making a mistake, then make it even easier to avoid a mistake. I can't make you not be crazy. I can give you some tips to mitigate the damage the crazy does to you.

You want to walk outside and have me guarantee that you won't get rained on. I can look outside, see the sun shining, and tell you that the chances of getting rained on are virtually nil. But I can't guarantee it--it's not in my control. So I suggest that if you're worried about rain, you could carry an umbrella, or wear a raincoat, or just get over your fear of getting wet. You don't want to do those things, so on the slight chance of a freak shower, you choose to stay inside and miss out on the fun. That's your choice, but don't ever pretend that I've forced you to make that choice. It's your paranoia, not anything I've done, that's holding you back.

No need to continually point the other way, place blame on incompetent investigators, renegade attorneys or split hairs incessantly... Your client is the one looking for the license to be sloppy.... You and the other attorneys are the "hired guns" as they say in the "law biz." Your client files the suits, Your client approves them being filed and ultimately, your client has complete control over who get sued and who doesn't.

If your client doesn't then there's mass-sloppiness going on... wouldn't you agree?





Photographing compact discs and logging them isn't? Placing signage in a venue, special disclaimer pages in a songbook, logging cd's with a release or ensuring that everyone in the club can clearly see your hands at every moment isn't?

I find it to be paranoid as h3ll....



All business risks are "reasonable" if they are not yours.... It ain't your risk is it? The real problem here is that your client won't make it "perfectly safe" for anyone to use their product off the original disc(s) purchased from them. You can't - and your client won't - guarantee that their own customers who might have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on their product won't get sued for using it. Tell me that ain't a crock?



Wrong. We did not ask you for "procedures to ease our minds" we asked for a 100% IRONCLAD guarantee which you refused. Are you so confident that your project will make so many more "mistakes" that you can't -- or your client can't -- make a product guarantee? (Stand behind their product and you'll get run over.) Are the teams of people your client hires that incompetent?



I'm really getting tired of the name-calling....
Can you communicate without including that?



This is a typical word-scam of yours: The difference is that your client IS IN CONTROL... not at the whim of the weather or anything beyond their control... or perhaps they are at the whim of incompetent investigators and attorneys so eager on commission that they don't care?

I wouldn't ask you to guarantee something you can't control.... that would be downright stupid... and I wasn't asking for a guarantee from you, ... it would have to come directly from your client.

Unless you're now asserting that your client is NOT in control? Which is it?



And that my dear friends is double-speak in action.... Don't place the responsibility on the client where it belongs.... blame the weather... make up a completely nonsense comparison, shovel off the responsibility (and of course risk) on someone else and throw your hands up and walk away....

Priceless...

Why don't you just get an audit and chill Staley? Geez!

Still don't know who actually got sued, may have been named but did it actually go to courts or were they dismissed as soon as discs were provided?

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman,

Getting sued is your name, on a lawsuit, filed with the court.... dismissed or not...

It sounds so much "gentler" if I call it "being named" instead of what it really is: "Being Sued."

"Been Named" is the same as "Been Sued" the conclusion doesn't matter.


It doesn't require a conclusion to a trial or even a summary judgement.

People shouldn't have to submit to an audit to get peace of mind. The audit doesn't guarantee that you won't get named, either. It only covers you for one year. Then what, get another audit?? I say screw that. I am looking into every other brand because I don't want a company like SC in my life and in my business, watching over me. If/when their inspectors come I don't want them to see ANY SC being used. For Harrington to suggest to anyone that they should set up their show so as to make it easier for inspectors to see what is going on is ridiculous. I have a friend who has been at the same venue for years. They just built her a DJ booth, out of an old store room. If an inspector were to go in there they wouldn't know WHAT she was doing or how she was doing it. Should she not use the room just so she doesn't have to worry about being named in a suit?? Oh wait, she could put out a sign, and give SC free advertising. This is why people are starting to shy away from SC. They just don't want this type of oversight. They want to run their businesses untroubled.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I find it somewhat hypocritical that a Host/KJ would be willing to print signs and posters condemning a mfr and its product, but would be unwilling to produce signs and posters that simply state that they will use the product only in the original CD+G format so as to offer the product but take reasonable steps to stay within the proper use of the rights that they have upon purchase of that product.

With all due respect, that's unreasonable, not crazy.

(Again in the context of the product itself, it is top quality. That's why it was purchased in the first place.)


So... the topic again is how does Tricerasoft get to to this... apparently they have a unique approach to their licensing.

_________________
Never the same show twice!

Need more butter for my popcorn.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I think putting signs around of ANY kind is ridiculous. Why should I give SC free advertising?? They aren't paying me for that privilege. They aren't giving me money to advertise for them. I must have missed something, but who said they would print signs against SC. That would just be a stupid waste.

The product was purchased for the quality, yes, but some don't want the BS that goes along with that quality. Some here don't feel it's worth the trouble of dealing with audits and inspectors just for quality of a product that is no longer made.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Can you please point out where in the original purchase packaging and/or purchase did it state the original compact discs should not be played from behind a DJ booth or should otherwise remain in plain view for anyone? Is that the "proper use of rights" you're talking about?




Probably the same reason that Stingray Digital is located in Canada.

Well Chip you have to be the most stuborn person I have never met...I must admit you two going at it are better than watching a movie. I should cancel my cable...Opp's the topic. We're getting an ironclad covenant not to sue. Sec. 6 in the Gem contract, sweet. Just play by the rules and we never have to worry.

Jon

Rules that were made up by a company that will not make new CDs. Sorry, but I don't want to live by a Karaoke company's rules. One thing is doing your job legally, another is to be told how it should be run by your vendor. Your covenant not to sue is only good for a certain time period, not for as long as you are in business.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'm probably jumping in where I shouldn't...don't hate me for it BUT, the covenant not to sue... is for the year, right? During that year, a KJ could go out and buy all kinds of pirated stuff.. then when the year is up... they either renew the audit process (of which I know nothing about, but there must be one), or they take their chances of getting caught with the illegal stuff.
My point is... how are you going to get away with doing one audit and be promised that they won't sue FOREVER? It only makes sense that the audit would only be good for a set period of time.
So, you don't want an audit... so play from discs not computer. What's so hard about that?
This business of them coming in to check and not being able to see if you're playing discs or not is stupid. What kind of KJ is so well hidden behind a booth that it wouldn't be obvious whether a computer is being used for karaoke or not. The 'inspector' could sign up to sing a song and be able to tell by the screen whether a computer was playing the track or not. So what? Let them come and look at your show.. who cares. I get more grief from customers than an SC investigator would give me. Ok.. you're afraid of being 'named' by accident.. AND????.... it's very remotely possible that that would happen, but if it did.. what's it gonna cost you? Time? Obviously most KJ's coming in these forums are very intelligent.. I wouldn't think we'd have to hire a lawyer to answer to the complaint and prove that the suit was in error. If you have nothing to hide, then whats the big deal? NO DON'T ANSWER THAT! I really don't need to have my head chewed off here.
I just think we should all be on the same team here.. piracy is hurting our business... you have a better way of solving the problem? Then go out and do it. For now, we should stick together and do this for the better of the industry as a whole.
I am totally not worried about being named. They can come look at my system any time they want. I'll show them how it works if they want.
I just want illegal KJ's to get the bejesus scared out of them so that we can get back to making a fair living out of our chosen profession. If it costs me some extra effort.. and believe me it is costing me a lot of extra effort... but oh well.. it is what it is.
NOW, stop being so frickin stubborn and get back to offering positive input please.

I'll be waiting for the backlash.

_________________
SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Actually, the BEST way not to get named is just not use the product, period. If they don't SEE SC being used they can't name you. Simple as that. No audit, no extra charges, no reason to have to worry.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

And then you have to refuse to allow your singers to bring their own SC disc... gotta tell them you won't play SC. Where I am, that would be death to my show. Karaoke snobs like SC.

It's just.. the risk is so low.. I'm only doing the audit because I like using a computer.. it's convenient, but if I were using discs I wouldn't worry a bit about them coming and checking it out. I think you'd probably be in more danger driving home from work at the same time all the bars closed, than you are of being named in a suit.

But, to each their own. Use disc's, don't use SC.. whatever floats your boat. Just amazes me to see the time and effort spent arguing with Harrington about it. He's hired to do a job, he has clients. Same as us. I don't see any good coming from arguing with him. Asking him questions, debating a bit.. fine.. but from what I've seen here recently borders on obsessive. With no good coming from it.

_________________
SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Hopefully there will be some good to come of it. If SC wants more customers, stop making them feel like potential criminals, AND start making some music again. Get back to work. It's time to stop relying on lawsuits for money. Get back to making music. You don't see the other big names shutting down their operations to spend all their time suing people. And if they don't want to get back to work, or they can't get back to work, then maybe it's time for them to go. How many other companies have come and gone?? Maybe it's over for SC.

As for karaoke snobs, my area doesn't have that problem. People just want to get drunk and sing around here.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Lisa the Gem contract is a 5 year deal, so it's binding... Ah you said what if a person goes pirate after signing, then he breaks the contract at that time and opens himself up...Why would someone go pirate when Gem owners recieve future lots of 20 CD's for 150.00...There are some win wins in the deal...

Jon

My biggest problem with the Gem series is that you don't own the CDs.
Mr. Harrington, if SC were to offer the HD thing, like CB does, I would be interested in going back to them. Then I could buy only the songs I need or want, and all would be well. I think you should talk them into something like that. We could all be computerized, using SC, and all be happy.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Being mistrustful or paranoid isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I am actually neither one of those. I simply choose to buy from sources that I know don't and won't cause me any grief.

For the record, I have purchased anything from Sound Choice but an audit. All of my Sound Choice material (with the exception of a handful of discs purchased many years ago) has been purchased on the free market.

If you want different sources for your music, spend some time on eBay and Craigslist and even in traditional newspaper ads. You will find much better deals than any download service.

I have made a personal choice to not use any download service (for the time being) because i prefer to have a physical disc as a means of proving ownership. That isn't mistrust or paranoid, that is just hard physical proof. I also know that there are times when comuters do wonky things and I have the option of playing a disc I the need ever be. Those digital downloads don't provide that.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Chip - You know exactly what I am referring to. I was talking about the un-authorized distributors. If Joe Schmuckatelli sets up a server, lets you download Windows (or Amazon eBooks or Sound Choice material), and gives you a receipt, you are not covered.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris