Karaoke Forums

I have a friend who refers me bookings he can take and in return I try to refer stuff to him when i can't get a show. But neither of us takes money for the referral. However he's a friend. Other than that I would probably be okay paying a finders fee to people if i didn't have to advertise and got more gigs out of it. Nothing wrong with that!

Get all the details up front and you'll never go wrong.

JM

Agreed, Lonman. I have no right to argue over this one if I've already accepted. It is an extra $175 that I wouldn't have otherwise. But I don't want this to be a regular practice. The point of the post was so I could avoid this in the future. And all the feedback definitely helps. My goal is to be as fair as possible for everyone. Agreed, Lonman. I'm not going to start a fuss for this one. It is an extra $175 that I didn't get before. But I don't want this to be a regular practice. The point of the post was so I could avoid this in the future.

If another KJ sets me up, sure I'll gladly give them a cut, but it'll be 20% (not 30%) of the price I set, not what he sets for me.

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"K-Jay"
www.kjayskaraoke.8m.com

I'm not exactly sure why anyone thinks they have the right to know what the cut the other guy is getting is, anyway. Either you feel you are getting a fair price or not. If not, say no. His deal with the other guy has nothing to do with you. This is how agencies work. Having someone who will backbook their extra work to you is a good thing. If you stick your nose in their fees or complain about their cut, they'll find someone else. In a choice between making money or making no money, I'll choose making money every time.

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Birdofsong

Suppose you get $200, but the customer actually tossed out $500 for your services? Travel agencies used to get 5% for booking a hotel, and now the hotel chains don't even want to pay that. Waitresses would like to get 15 to 20%(which they don't always get), and they actually provide you with physical labor for a period of time(not to mention acting like they like you.... ). Talent agents, from casting extras to full blown acting parts get 10%.
I'd say, the Freedom of Information Act pretty well covers, what's your right to know what your referral charged the client.

Same with me. There is a group of 5 of us who cover for each other. Whatever the gig pays, that's what the DJ/Host gets. No side cuts. We all use our own equipment unless the venue provides any.

I do pay finder fees if someone refers me and I do the gig.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Again you are a subcontractor in that situation. You either accept the price, renegotiate or move on and they find someone else that will accept it.
In construction, contractors don't demand to know what the hired company is getting, they put in bids and the ones that like the price take the job.
This is no different. If you are happy with the price, you take it, if not - don't!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think it's quite reasonable to know what the price of a gig is. Could you imagine and agent going to their client and say Actor/Band/whatever A, can't do it but You B you can have it for $XXX (not knowing it's worth $XXXXX). So you pocket three figures and the other guy pockets 5 figures. Ya right. How many of you would do it for that type of a cut if you knew what the full value. It's called disclosure so one can make an appropriate decision.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I'm with Lonnie on this. You either like the price or you don't. The rest is none of your business. We have had agency relationships for years. You get a call, they tell you what the job is, what the pay is, and you say yes or no. You don't ask them what they're taking. They'd never EVER call you again. It's poor form and frankly, it's pretty tacky. We have a pretty good idea what the back end is -- some take more and some take less, but as long as we get paid what we feel the job is worth, I really don't care. If they want to bleed the client, that's business between them and the client. I get my money either way.

Think bigger. You can grow your business by making yourself accessible to other people to book you. Even if you get less per job than if you book it yourself, you get many more jobs in the long run. The question really is -- do you want to work in a bar for lower wages, or work private parties for several sources for far more money? I'll take the private parties anytime. The food's better, too.

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Birdofsong

In my job I know exactly what each job is worth. I negotiate my pay accordingly. You can't negotiate if you don't know. Why should you get $100 a show while the agency gets $400. I for one, would never work for an agency like that.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I would never do any show for $100. That's the point. If you don't like what you're offered, just say no.

Have you ever been booked by an entertainment agency? I'm guessing not.

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Birdofsong

I'd rather do my own negotiations, thank you.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I had an entertainment agency call me yesterday and ask if I was interested in doing a 3 hr show that included very current dj music and plenty of children singers for a whopping $100. He said don't look it as only $100....look at it as $15000, because the last KJ was there for 3 years (50 shows per year X 3 years). My answer was that "I am not interested, but maybe I can find someone who will do it for you (yeah right)". I explaned the cost of doing a legal show and he said that it had to be legal.

And I bet the agency was charging a minimum of $300 but probably closer to $500. I'm a Capitalist, I want my share and will not be cheated out of it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Say the client pays $500 for a show.....they will expect a $500 show. If you give the KJ a $200 cut for the show.....you will get a $200 show. You not only have the right to know, you need to know. Maybe after doing a few of those, you should make sure the IRS.......had a right to know.....you may get up to 50% back......

ps....Mr. Harrington.......can I get your opinion on this?

Geez! I wouldn't set up for $100! Much less put up with a bunch of children singers!! Not that I don't like kids..but
Private party, 3 hr minimum= $375 might be talked down to $350 if it's an easy one. But kids shows are hardly ever easy!

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Again you are a subcontractor in that situation. You either accept the price, renegotiate or move on and they find someone else that will accept it.
In construction, contractors don't demand to know what the hired company is getting, they put in bids and the ones that like the price take the job.
This is no different. If you are happy with the price, you take it, if not - don't![/quote]

wow you compare a referral to a construction contractor.......as a contractor, you pay union or prevailing wages, you're constantly comming on site to make sure everything is going smoothly......you are not only the boss, you are the superintendent. You supply your cliente with all the receits, and charge a contractors fee, with negotiated bonuses, and penalties if things aren't done according to the contract. You seldom get to negotiate anything with the people you hire, it's set.......you're there, you have paper work, physical work, give direction, sometimes you lose money.....it's a byatch....been there.......be nice if it was just a few referrals.....bad analogy, sorry

No not really. If a hired company sub-hires another for the job, the sub has no business knowing what the the hired company is making, that was the point I was making. If the sub is agreeable to the pay, then that is all that is needed to know! If they aren't agreeable, they don't get the job - period.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

For the most part I agree that if your willing to do the job for the offered amount it really shouldn't matter.

My only concern would be that the person who setup the gig charged quite a bit over the agreed amount. Now the client thinks your normal $350 rate is $600 because that's what it cost them.

If they have another event and find another KJ themselves willing to do the gig for $400 do you think they'll call you when they think your rate is $600?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

No, you don't want "a share" that's the point: You want it all... So, in these cases since you can't have it all, you'll get nothing.

If you have agencies that will do that to you in your area, then they've obviously been able to get away with it.....

If you want to pin an agency down, when they call you and ask for a price simply tell them: "My price is 85% of what you are charging them - period."

The agency is entitled to some payback here - they're out selling YOU... a cost that you don't have to incur and don't kid yourself, marketing your services does have a cost.

Agencies are "sale organizations" and as such, they are entitled to their "sales commissions" and (here in the states) if you collect all the funds and pay the agency yourself, you can write that off your taxes as commissions...

It's funny I run across this post because I recently had a few dealings with entertainment agencies. One involved about a half-dozen country clubs here in Southern Florida for about 3 months next season. I was asked what I charged and told them and that was it. I faxed over our agreements and everything was signed, etc. I never inquired what they were charging for the gigs, but just happy to get my full price and the phone calls.
The other one was a call from Marriott hotels regarding team building exercises, game shows, etc thru their entertainment agent. Again, I was asked for many numerous quotes for these services and gave them all the info they requested without any thought of what they were making, etc.
Pretty happy that these folks are interested in my little company enough to inquire. Hopefully this Marriott thing will work out soon.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified