Karaoke Forums

Has anyone noticed that SC has a warning label on their discs? No other company spells it out so clearly, "Unauthorized duplication, public performance, or broadcast is a violation of applicable laws...". So their asking for KJ's to become authorized, its that simple. If you don't like that provision, you should have stopped buying CD's after the first one...

Jon

It's not what you think it is.... it has nothing to do with their current operation.


And take a look at a DK disc.... it's just as clear.

Chip it has everything to do with their current operation, and ours. Have you been authorized to duplicate or use them for public performance? I haven't. I didn't know it was needed until seven months ago, at which time I pulled all my SC out of our gigs. Come next week I will be authorized, and proudly display that I am...As far as DK, if they were still in business I'm sure they would be leading a charge also...

Jon

DK is alive and well in Japan.... always have been.

Authorized public performance is the clubs responsibility ie paying their PR fees.

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Well I'm not using DK at my gigs are you? If so, then you need to get their authorization to do so. And since their still in business do you have their number? I'm looking to buy some CD's and wan't to make sure I can use them before I fork out the cash...

Jon

Lonnie when they post on their product, which they have, about authorized use in public performance, sounds like they reserve the right to allow you to play them in public also...I looked through all my different CD's, audio also, and none of them have that type of warning spelled out...

Jon

I have that same warning on many standard audio cd's. Some in very fine print, others state just unauthorized copying, however the public performance rights is authorized as long as the club is paying their PR fees. This was cleared up years ago.

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Ok those are original artists that BMI and ASCAP cover. Sound Choice used different performers and went on to say in their warning "These are professional re-creations and not renditions by the original artist". I would think with that included it gives SC say also in the use of their product in public perfomance. Time for me to give BMI and ASCAP a call...

Jon

Somebody just posted an entire response from those organizations including the part where karaoke is part of that. Can't remember which thread but it was sometime within the last couple days.

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I saw that too Lonnie, It's just that SC went out of their way to word it that way. In doing so it states it uses different performers, which were under contract with them, and may give them some say in there public use...

Jon

That's a misconception as to what BMI/ASCAP fees cover.

There is no public performance right in a sound recording. (Ok, there is a tiny exception for public performances involving a digital audio transmission.)

BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC fees cover the public performance right in the underlying musical work.

To use a famous example: Willie Nelson wrote "Crazy," but Patsy Cline's recording made it popular. When you play your copy of Patsy Cline's recording of "Crazy" at a show, Patsy Cline's estate gets nothing. (The artists make money by selling their sound recordings.) Willie Nelson, however, gets a royalty for the public performance.

SC made its own recording of "Crazy." When you play the SC recording of "Crazy" at a karaoke show, SC gets nothing. (SC makes money by selling/licensing their sound recordings.) Willie Nelson, however, gets a royalty for the public performance.

BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC are nothing more than collection agents for songwriters and publishers; they collect public performance rights fees for those songwriters and publishers.

But Patsy Cline's estate and SC get nothing from the public performance, and nothing from the PROs, because they cannot legally prevent their sound recordings from being publicly performed. (SC, however, releases audiovisual works, which are not "sound recordings," strictly speaking. We still don't get anything from BMI or ASCAP.)

Which is why artists end up selling their recordings for advertisement, because those sync rights are something you have to pay for. I know a guy who is both the artist and a songwriter for a song that was in a major advertising campaign, and it was a gold mine.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

The key part of that is "applicable laws".

The authorization for public performance is aquired through the payment of dues to the performing arts societies by the venues you work in.

The single personal copy of the music you use on your hard drive in your show is authorized by the "fair use" laws of the United States (there is "fair use" for commericial applications).

Of course, this is an opinion.
You will find opinions to the contrary, but you will not find law to the contrary.


If you feel that strongly about your legal obligations based on your own opinion of the law, you should have pulled all of your unauthorized music from your gigs and let everyone sing a cappella until you got your ducks in a row. If you only have one manufacturer's authorization now, you should be offering only soundchoice.

If you don't believe you have a legal and moral right to play the music you paid for without further blessings directly from the manufacturer, here's a starter list of music you won't be able to use for awhile:

All Hits
Ameri-Sing
Backstage
Cool Tracks
Current Hits
Disney Karaoke
Dangerous
DK
Doctor Music
Helluvadisk
Hotline
Idolmakers
Karaoke Bay
Karaoke Classics
Lost Classics
Legends
Music Maestro
Monster Hits
Northstar
NuTech
Pop Hits Mthly
Pop Hits Today
Pioneer
Pro-Trax
Pocket Songs
Rhythm & Blues
RCA
Radio Starz
Nikkodo/SAVA
Supercore
Sweet GA Brown
Sound Images
Standing Ovation
Song Factory
StarDisc
Star Quest
Starmaker
Sunfly
Top Hits Mthly
Tip Top
Top Tunes
Tropical Zone
U-BEST
Ultra Sonic
World Star
Zoom

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...Hey PD
A few hours ago I called RIAA about DJ Music (Non-Karaoke). It's listed in the "MP3 Music....." Thread. I even put their phone contact number.

....Also, I called All Star Karaoke about any limitations for commercial performances by KJ's. I think I talked with Christy(?), Christina(?) or Chrissy(?). Anyway, I asked her if we could Media-Shift, Media-Format, play their CDG's and or downloads (all of course would have been aquired legally). She said that everything was approved for commercial in any of those forms. Just keep your CDG's and download receipts. Here's their number if you need it 1-800-817-7024. I think you said you use them? I have around 70 of their CDG's myself.

....For piece of mind, I'm still thinking about emailing them and perhaps requesting something in paper (an email) for approval in commercial use.

Jim stated, (SC, however, releases audiovisual works, which are not "sound recordings," strictly speaking. We still don't get anything from BMI or ASCAP.)

...Ok, then the warning still gives KJ's the heads up to get permission from SC for public use, thus the "trademark infringment lawsuits"... Also guys, it's pretty clear on media transfer also.

Conclusion: You bought it, the warning is on the label (hell it takes up 25%), if you want to use it, get permission...Yep, that means an audit...

Jon

@MMO, First of all you talked to the wrong person at All Star... No company is giving you the ok for you to use them in public performance. They can't, it's not there call. They merely say if you use them in public they don't mind. And don't expect to get that in writing either. Now SC is saying, if you want to use them you need their permission. Agian their not going to rubber stamp it and say your you can, merely if you do it's ok, after an audit...Now as far as Allstar, Brent told me just me it just as I stated. And he did add the best thing is to have the disc if your a KJ, media transfer was ok if it was 1:1...

Jon

Do you see the difference? One company says that it is perfectly fine to shift the files, and use them commercially as long as you keep the original discs. That's easy, nice and simple. SC wants you to jump through hoops for the same privilege. I would rather go with convenience and easy of use. All Star makes a pretty good product, and they are easy to acquire. Go to Wal-Mart. No shipping and handling. But a disk or two a week, and in no time have a great collection that can be run off a computer. THAT, my friends, is service with a smile!!

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Of course the salient words are "unauthorized duplication". Ripping to a harddrive is duplication. Under fair use, you can do this for private purposes as spelled out in the appropriate legislations. Commercial is a whole other ball game.

Aurthorization can come in several forms and can be given or taken away and is not the same for all companies, artists or copyright holders.

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@Earthling: I don't need the blessing from all those companies, you do if you playing them. I'm running a CB, ASK, SGB, Karaokanta, KBO show. And yes we have verbal OK's from them...Soon we will have SC's blessing and add it to our show.

@Smoothedge, it's Joe right. Did you read the warning? Life's full of rules, SC set their's out there. If you don't like it well don't use them. Bitching ain't going to change how it is... Yes All Star makes a good product, getting better all the time. I see them as the new front runner in the industry soon...

Jon