Karaoke Forums

....Perhaps I used the wrong terminology. If you're at a commercial venue or you're business is commercial (Professional KJ/DJ) your operating commercially. Therefore you or the venue has to have proper license (BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC fees cover the public performance rights).

....On the flip side, I was just trying to cover my butt as far being related to their product (CDG's, shifting, ripping and MP3 downloads) of All Star Karaoke and that I wanted to be sure that I could use them at Commercial Businesses (Bars, Lounges, Bowling Centers, Etc.) I don't know who Brent is? I just called the All Star Phone number, told the girl that answered what I was looking for. She said she could answer my questions.

....Just wanted to pass on the info here, to others. Again, I recommend anyone to call for their own sanity! Currently, SC, PHM, Chartbusters and All Star, all seem to be conducting business differently in this related area.

Actually, it's Bobby. It's not SC's rules that I have a problem with. It's their tactics and the fact that they treat EVERYONE as a potential criminal, and they they haven't grown with the times.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

OK Bobby, say you own the company, you staff is 20% of what it was, sales are way down, the last CD you produced was in the red. You know pirates are rampant, what would you do?

Jon

Unfortunately there are probably more pirate kj's out there that never bought an actual disc, than true disc users that buy everything and run solely off of discs.
If these people weren't stealing this stuff - we're talking loss to the manu in the thousands $$ wise each time a hard drive is sold on one of the auction sites. Figure a rough estimate based on 900 Spotlight discs @ $15 each(this is on the low side) of $13,500 lost to SC alone, not to mention the other companies. Now assuming just 5000 kj's/people (again i'm sure a REALLY low figure) bought one of these drives, that's over $67 million lost in revenue to SC alone.
When everyone (including legit users) shifts to computer, how are they to determine who actually bought their stuff and who didn't? Most disc users that shift do not bring their discs in anymore, or some might even sell them off breaking the 1:1 ratio and leading them to be no better than someone buying a loaded hard drive. If the piracy wasn't so rampant, i'm sure none of the authentifcation steps would ever be in place.

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I would work on a downloading program that would track the songs, and limit how many times they could be copied to one, by embedding code into them that would destroy the file should the owner of it try to share it. You wouldn't have to worry about backing up your files because they would be stored on my site, and if you needed copies, say in the case of hard drive failure, you could get your files back. I would also, try to work with the government to shut down the sharing sites, or at the very least get America disconnected form them if they were off shore. I would also go after the sellers of illegal hardware. I would NOT try to sue every KJ in the country, and I wouldn't force them into audits and all that crap.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Come on Bobby, I see how fired up you get. Remember you own the company. You'd be suing everyone and their grandmother if you thought it would keep your business alive...

Jon

No, I wouldn't. How much money has SC wasted in suing people?? And for what? Has it eased the problem? No. It's worse than ever. All SC can do is evolve, or go away.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

It was never a matter of easing the problem, but I think it eventually will help. They've never hid the fact it's to recoup losses stolen from them especially the last few years with the hard drive sales explosions.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It will never help. There are too many pirates out there, for ever one they get more crop up. SC's only reason for being is going to be suing people?? Like I said, evolve or go away. Going away would make everyone's life easier, if you ask me. Since they refuse to create new music, what is the sense of staying open? They are losing ground, rapidly.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

No I believe it will eventually help. I have already seen some kj's here close up, some have bought the GEM to settle and got rid of any other SC song they had putting them on a more even keel at least as far as that manu goes. Some that have pulled SC entirely from their books, I know for fact I have made new customers since those kj's no longer offer the songs/versions they want to sing. Chris just got a new gig BECAUSE he was found in the certified site from a bar looking specifically for a certified KJ.
As far as making new music I don't care if they do or not, 90% of our singers (ages range 20-30) sing stuff from the 70's-2000's, any thing 'new' doesn't get done very often - mostly country if anything, so new music isn't what necessarily drives a show. Rumour has it they do have new stuff in the works, but we'll see - hopefully it isn't what has been put out already by other manus. I would like to see new 'older' music over new 'new' music personally. Plenty of back catalog stuff that still is untapped.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Well there's always going to be pushers, terrorists organized crime, etc, etc, etc, so since we can't beat them, we should just allow them to continue, unscathed.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Must be Eastern Canadian policy....


(Now I'm getting popcorn!...)

That's right Chippy why fight it. At least that's what some here believe.
But them I do see I did inadvertently omit a couple of words. Yes a mistake. Unlike some others, I will admit to them.

It should have been, well since we can't stop pushers, terrorists, organised crime, etc, etc, etc, then we should just let them continue, unscathed. (Sarcasm)

If you don't fight it, it only gets worse.

So when will someone answer why it is ok to duplicate your tools of the trade for virtually nothing and why the manufacturer shouldn't be paid for it.

I wonder what would happen if you showed a Lucasfilm or Disney movie in a theatre and not pay them because you are using a copy you made of a DVD you bought?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

All I said is that going after the pirates isn't helping. More are popping up every day. Instead of fighting THEM, make it easier and more convenient to be legal. Modernize the system so people who want to be legal can, without jumping through all kinds of hoops.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

This has been answered many times and far less vaugely than than the framing of your question.



You fail to recognize the difference.
Lucasfilms or Disney actually do own the copyright to the content on the DVD (karaoke manufacturers do not own the copyright to the content on their product). If the perfomance rights were purchased for playing the film there wouldn't be a problem with the copyright owner. As for the copy, they won't be worried about that until it is sold or distributed, and then they would go after the actual persons who sold or distributed it.

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KNOW THYSELF

This analogy doesn't work - it's faulty - it's doesn't quantify that Lucasfilm and/or Disney's copy "you bought" was intended and marketed to be shown "in a theatre."

So, if you want to make more appropriate it would read like this:




(and ditto on Earthling's post)

I don't think anything would happen.

Ever.

The portion in parentheses is in fact not true.

It is partially, and maybe mostly, true with regard to SC because of the sale of the pre-2007 catalog to Stingray, but everything that SC made after that sale still belongs to SC, and there most certainly is an enforceable copyright in those works.

I believe Earthling was talking about the "original underlying work" that SC imitates with their "sound recording."

Yes, SC may have an enforceable copyright on the "sound recordings" ONLY. They do not own the copyright to the lyrics or to the original musical composition (the song itself).

So Earthling's statement is in fact, true with regard to the underlying musical work, lyrics and synchronization. Those are "licensed" by SC... not "owned' by SC.

This is the second mention of Stingray that I have seen. What is it? Is it something that could help newbies??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I don't know what the above means. If you are asking his name, or think he's me?

Anyway, this subject is the very reason we do not want to wake up the publishers/owners ( which, though a small possibility, is more possible thnks to SC beating the waters).

Technically, they could ask for and possibly get a Cease & Desist order for karaoke based on the fact that few if any mfrs ever had complete licensing for all of their tracks.

For instance, someone said they had VERBAL permission from companies such as SGB.

First, all verbal agreements are meaningless in court.

Second, if it was from a company like SGB ( which had to have been gotten 8-10 years ago. I believe they went OOB in 2004),- even in writing- then you got it from a company that never licensed anything. Again worthless.

If the music owners ever decided to put a stop to karaoke, they could. Disc, download, or ripped MP3- it wouldn't matter.

I hope the giants keep sleeping, because it's them- not the karaoke mfrs. ( well, except for SC for reasons of their own) that will cause a problem. Any karaoke mfr. who wants to keep their customer base isn't going to go after a KJ using their product. Of course, SC no longer worries about this.

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