Karaoke Forums

No, they won't. Because of the "human element" remember? They're determined that "mistakes" will continue to be made - although they are the ones with complete (as in 100%) control over whether that happens or not.



You are confusing a "guarantee" with a "breach." They are two very different animals and you can't equate a breach with a lack of a guarantee.

Seriously?

You can apply that logic to just about any vocation on the planet:
A plumber who works with "patented" tools,
A school teacher who works with "copywritten" schoolbooks,
A lawyer who works with "copywritten" database lookup tools,
A policeman who works with while carrying a patented TASER daily,

These are all professions that "work with the public" and still maintain their own privacy.... why should I be afforded any less?

Just because I "work in the public" is not any cause for that public - or anyone else for that matter - to have access to ANYTHING that I purchase.

I'm protected under the same consumer laws as anyone else. Copyright holders have their rights - there's no contest there - but in the same breath, so do I. And my rights are not usurped or diminished just because of what I do or where I work.

Contrary to your belief, I don't give up a single privacy right simply because I work in a "public-oriented" business.

That is odd because I am using thousands of dollars of SC product and I am not at risk of legal action due to any element. Any mistakes made would be on my own part. I removed the risk by doing an audit. I am in the "karaoke business" too.

You may not be making any money off fear, but you are most assuredly a fear monger. You broadcast far and wide that anyone using Sound Choice products under any circumstances will get sued. That is just plain not the truth.

Your investment is being wasted by you and you alone.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Whoa - I have been pretty clear that I DO NOT 100% agree with the way Sound Choice goes about what they are doing. I am 100% on board with the WHY.

You also need to ensure there is context around the "no guarantee you will not be sued". As long as I adhere to the policies (which are not heard to do) I feel as if I am guaranteed that no suit will be brought against me. That doesn't mean it never could, but I have done what I feel I need to do to reduce the risk to basically zero.

Anyone can write down on a piece of paper "I guarantee I will never shoot you", get it notarized, and still shoot that person. Millions of people have gotten married, taken a vow of "til death do use part" in front of friends and family, and still get divorced. Guarantees actually mean very little. How you deal with someone and the relationship you maintain with them does a lot more toward guaranteeing anything than a piece of paper will.

There are NO guarantees in life. But you can reduce the risks to the point you don't have to be concerned about the risks.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

You removed much more than what you believed to be your risk - yet you fully admit that even with your "audit and certification" you still have no guarantee of not being sued - and therefore you have really removed no risk. Quite the opposite actually. But if you read your paperwork, you did give away more than just the "fee."



Sorry Chris, but it IS "the plain truth" and you've admitted it yourself that even you can get sued and Harrington has confirmed that "mistakes" will obviously be made even with disc-based hosts. Not "can be made" but " will be made" even though SC has full control over whether any mistakes are made.

And to correct your intentional mischaracterization above:
I do not "broadcast far and wide that anyone using Sound Choice products under any circumstances will get sued" however, if you use Sound Choice products you are AT RISK of being sued. Confirmed by you and Mr. Harrington. And it doesn't matter what you use; disc or computer. That is a fact you cannot refute no matter how much you jump up and down and throw a tantrum, point fingers or try to backpedal. I'm not in the risk business.

Just as you can "soften" any characterization that you really "make money off of piracy by helping pirates keep their jobs" by calling it something less truthful like "helping an illegal host become legal." Doesn't that just sound better and make you feel all pink inside? Sorry, but in this case, you are actually part of the problem not the solution.

I'm seriously growing weary of having to explain the same thing over and over again because cheerleaders think if they ask the same question a hundred different ways, they might get a different answer.... (isn't that part of the definition of insanity? Expecting a different outcome from the same action?)

Chris you made your point clearly... Chip your the only reason why your customers arn't singing SC, yes you, and your fear wheeling paranoid ways. This isn't like your a plummer, his tools please, theres no copyright issue. The Teacher and their books, just how many people had to inspect them before they went into a classroom. If a teacher had books at home that she was using in class, does she have the right to privacy not to show the principle? The Policeman and their Taser, agian just how many people had to inspect that, and can he just bring a gun from home?...Your upset that your little world is now being shakin after all these years, understandable. In our profession there is not a right to privacy when dealing with copyright material... Boy, I bet you hate the dentist also...

Jon

There most certainly is a right to privacy in all aspects of your life until you voluntarily give up that right.

Just because you do business with the public, that does not allow the public to poke their noses into your business at their whim. Suppose I would like to audit your discs and your books to make sure you are not unfairly competing with me or my friends? And charge you for my time and trouble? I promise not to sue you until I want to look again.

Just because you see fit to give away some of your rights, that absolutely does not mean it is the right thing to do.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

It's hardly a whim. The people we are interested in are doing more than just using the product that was sold to them.

Well then, let's change it to read your way and see how much of a difference that makes:


Nope. No difference...

So Sorry...

Try again..

And even though SC is a trademark holder, until such time as there is actual proof of infringement --- and not just a "mistake" -- SC is really nothing more than a member of "the public" and is not granted any special privileges that encroach on my privacy.

Of course the public is not allowed to see a business' financials:

http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/f ... period=qtr

Oops, I guess I'm wrong.

A plumber breaks one of his tools, no problem, he or she can just go to their truck and replicate another one for next to nothing. Oops, I'm wrong again.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Playing Devil's Advocate here but McDonalds is a publicly traded company as to where ABC Karaoke Service is most likely not. So financials on a publicly traded company would be available to the public as to the later would not, correct?

Chip, has SC sued you?

Has an investigator come to your show?

Has your club been threatened with a lawsuit by SC if they didn't fire you?

Have we demanded to audit your systems?

Have we demanded to see your discs?

Have we parked someone outside your house to monitor your comings and goings? Tapped your phones? Intercepted your mail? Broadcast secret messages into the fillings of your teeth?

Of course not. The answer to all of those questions is "no."

At some point you have to recognize that we know who you are, and that we know how vocal you are, and that in all the time you've been vocal, you haven't been targeted. Do you think that's just by accident?

It's not.

You want a guarantee? Here's a guarantee for you:

Slep-Tone Entertainment Corporation will not sue you for copyright infringement, trademark infringement, unfair competition, or any related tort based upon your playing lawful original, unaltered, non-media-shifted Sound Choice-branded discs in any commercial setting.

Hopefully that is clear enough for you.

Since some here are trying to expand their argument of privacy (or lack there of) to relate it to all forms of business I was trying to be generalized in my statement.

But since you focused on whims, I must point out this part of my quote:


And the whim:


Those are rights that many have voluntarily surrendered among others such as the right to defend yourself in your own jurisdiction under your own state laws:



When one voluntarily relinquishes their rights to another they truly are subject to the whims of that other.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

I'll show my discs to anyone who asks! I'm proud of my collection. You won't see a dime for your time or trouble though, it's not your IP property

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

let's keep it apples to apples, the teacher showing the principal the materials used in class, the principal is the teachers boss, SC is not your boss. teacher does not have to show Hal Leonard the books or risk being sued for using them.

the Tazer, not I.P., this is an orange, not an apple.

if we stay in the I.P. realm, consider this, now you have to pay Microsoft $150.00 a year to continue using the Windows operating system in a commercial business. even though you have the license, if you have not gotten the certification, venues will not be likely to hire you.
then your hosting software, $200.00 a year for being able to continue using that I.P. and the certificate that will let venues hire you.
put in those terms it seems rather rediculous, but we all know that you can go on any torrent site and download any windows version you want.
to say "that is the cost of doing business" makes sense in the way of inspections and licensing from government agencies for tax, health, safety, etc. reasons, but a vendor is a different story in every other industry but this one, even involving I.P.
that is what all his hub bub is about (sorry if i am overstepping Chip or anyone else thinking this way) not that they are protecting I.P.
now back to the O.P.

private parties i get $150.00/hr, weddings between $200.00 & $300.00 /hr depending on distance and whats needed. weekly bar rates are currently $150.00 for 5 hour show (i want it for 4 hours and $50.00/hr from there, but market ain't taking that in AZ).

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Hell i'd love to find a club willing to pay $150 around here! I know a kj that just got a 7 night gig at $100 per night (he normally tries to get $175 per night) and he hires a host 2 nights - sat & sun. But he don't have to set or tear down.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

We charge less if we don't have to set up and tear down also. I'd love to find a gig even 2 nights in a row at the same place... sounds like heaven We do one gig 30 miles from here.. one night per week, but we use their system...and get $175. Not complaining about it... too much.... though the cost of fuel is getting out of hand. I still want my $250 plus $50 bonus back though... for 4 hours, not 5. I always play extra on a busy night though.... I hate telling them it's over when they are having so much fun... the bar usually has to give me the 'high' sign to stop!!

Wedding prices vary. Standard was $125/hr (we played the 30 mins before the ceremony as a courtesy), then there's drive time if it's more than 30 mins away.. wireless mics/lapel.. lights. Also a 3 hour minimum. But these days.. we give more breaks than we used to.. rogue DJ's are out there too.

_________________
SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

It wouldn't matter. You have no rights to enter his PRIVATE truck and go rooting around just because you "think he might" be able to replicate anything.

How about I come to your house and sue you and demand to search it top to bottom by discovery because I think "you might" have an unauthorized copy of my kiosk software? Remember, it's Harrington that constantly reminds us that 100% proof is not required.... just an inkling that perhaps you might will do.

Not yet. And you have to agree that there really nothing preventing it either.


Wouldn't know would I? Especially if it was one of your crack squads with perhaps a secondary team immediately after your briefing.... or an incompetent one that was passed out drunk....

Mistakes can happen you know.... remember the "human element" is always present.


The venues where I work wouldn't never sign a "Safe Harbor" agreement. You'd have to do exactly as you've done dozens of times before: sue them first, then make whatever demands you felt were appropriate.


Demanded to what? "Audit" my system? You mean your invented "invasive search" of my private property? You know better than that... right?


You mean the ones that you said I might get sued for using? The ones I paid SC cash-up-front between $22 and $50 EACH? SC should already have some records.... after all, I did purchase custom compilations directly from them.... Look it up...


Dunno.... is it in the works? After all, it is a public street and there would be nothing I could do about it anyway right? But you're free to burn up your own $65/hr for surveillance of a state licensed investigator. Park an unlicensed flunky out there and see what the stalking laws are...


A federal crime....


Another federal crime...


Holy crap! Your investigators are good! How did you know I even have fillings? I was wondering what that tingling was......


And you're saying this because?.....



Are you saying that you would've already "targeted" me if I were not so vocal?


Sorry, but with all due respect to your position, that's not gonna cut it.... You are not the legal agent for Slep-Tone Entertainment. And you only have legal responsibilities for those areas that have been assigned to you by your client -- to date -- by your own admission, that doesn't include Michigan.

Your guarantee also doesn't specify whether or not your client wouldn't sue my corporation (a legal entity) or myself personally or both. It would need to include at minimum both. Based the technicalities that your client sues on, I wouldn't put it past them to guarantee not to sue "the person" and turn around and sue "the corporation." Call it the "DSS" or "Deranged Staley Syndrome" if you like. (I'll just slip into my tinfoil hat...)

The only guarantee that might (key word: "might") work is one that is .... signed on paper and notarized.... by the owner/registered agent of the company and you probably wouldn't like it much anyway.

The point I'm making is that your client is the one that has created this poisonous and toxic situation, and your very own cheerleaders have stalked, lied, insinuated, posted false and disparaging pages on facebook attempting to impersonate me (and Joe Chartreuse btw), threatened and so on and so on... By the way, both Joe and I had to have Facebook security remove the pages -- your cheerleaders ignore any request you make of them so it's almost a charade.

You yourself have taken Thunder's lead in the accusation-by-insinuation party that the reduction of our systems was a direct result of your lawsuits and nothing else. The postings by WallOfSound or InsaneKJ of the zoning board regarding my commercial truck was obviously your springboard. Did you bother to verify any of this information before posting that you "speculated" it was a reduction because of big, bad Sound Choice? Did you bother to even ASK how many SC discs I own or how many discs I own at all? None of this was important apparently. It's just not as much fun is it?

The postings on the "other forum" aren't a secret....

Now if you'll excuse me... It's time for a chill pill....

Are you suggesting that when I say I don't have anything to fear that I actually should? I thought you weren't a fear monger?

The covenant not to sue is not a pardon nor is it amnesty, which is what you seem to want from Sound Choice. There are terms. If I violate the terms, they can sue. If I don’t violate the terms, then I am golden.



Confirmed. You don’t sell fear at all, you just give it away for free. How generous of you.

The "plain truth" is you can’t move past the 1%. The “plain truth” is you will grab any snippet you can and twist it to fit your own agenda . As for mistakes that “will be made”, as venerable and life-experienced as you are, Chip, you WILL make mistakes between now and the time you are no longer on this earth. You are no more flawless than anyone or anything else. Why you continue to think that it should not be possible for anyone else to make mistakes when you will most certainly make plenty between now and when you pass is beyond comprehension.

By the way, you give me far too much credit. You seem to think that because I “confirmed” that it is possible to get sued that everyone, including yourself it seems, should uphold that as having some sort of authority. I appreciate the respect and honor you have bestowed upon me with this appreciation, but I don’t believe for a moment that you hold that it for anything other than to satisfy your argument.

The “plain truth” is this – not a single host that has gone through the audit process has later been sued. In that regard I see my odds of being sued as 0%. You on the other hand are much more likely to get sued. I am also using SC product at every single one of my shows while you claim you don’t use it at all. My hard earned and well spent money is being utilized with the products I purchased and yours are not. I would say that I am very much coming out ahead in this game. But what do I know? You have been at this for two decades and I have only been at it for less than two years.



You do broadcast far and wide. I see what you post on the Old Jolters forum, I have seen your posts on the Sound Choice forums, and we have all been bludgeoned senseless by your rants here. I am sure there are other forums but I honestly could not bear to expose myself to any more than I have to.



Chip, I assure you, it is a feeble attempt on your part to make me feel guilty or look bad in the karaoke community for assisting people that ask for help. I sleep well at night knowing that I have helped people do the right thing. You on the other hand, ignore pirates all-together and push a smear and fear campaign.



I am glad you are growing weary. Nothing would please me more than for you to just stop.

Your definition of insanity is “Expecting a different outcome from the same action”

YOU “explain the same thing over and over again” (which meets your insanity definition) because…..
the CHEERLEADERS “ask the same question a hundred different ways” (which does not meet your definition because there are a hundred different actions)

Also, insanity is actually quite rare – to the tune of about 1% of the world’s population – which just so happens to be a number you return to over and over and over again as if you are expecting something to change because of it when nothing is.

I am not a doctor, but one could draw an unsavory conclusion from that. And since my word commands such respect, you might be wise to get a check up.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris