Karaoke Forums

...but unfortunately, I can't.

On 2/29/12, HL and I had this exchange on page 6 of the "Legalities" thread:

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HarringtonLaw wrote:

1. JoeChartreuse wrote:
Also, you mention the media shifters. Are you saying that SC will audit and certify disc based hosts free of charge? Even those not involved in a suit? It is my understanding that SC charges for all voluntary audits. Has this changed?
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
When a host is original disc-based, there is no need for an audit. In fact, there is nothing to audit; ergo, no charge for an audit. If you are 100% original disc-based, email me your business name and mailing address, and I will arrange for a letter to be sent to you on SC letterhead or my firm's letterhead--your choice--explaining that a host who uses original Sound Choice-branded discs only is considered by us to be a fully compliant, legal operator, and should be treated exactly the same as a Sound Choice Certified KJ. You can share that with any venue you like, make copies of it, etc., as long as the wording is not changed. No charge.
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
You know what? I'll take you up on that and see if it actually happens. I know that Kurt knows for a fact that I am what I claim to be.

If it DOES happen, I will make a point of posting it here on the forum. If it doesn't- well, same thing.
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I immediately sent an e-mail with the requested information. HL replied on the same day - 2/29/12- that he was working on it.

If this had been a program that was already in place, it would not have taken more than printing out a template letter, some personalization, and mailing- ten or fifteen minutes. I should have had the letter in a few days.

Now, folks will say "Yo dude! Legal stuff always takes forever!"

Not buying it.

Oh, I realize that HL is a busy guy ( while of course I sit around eating bon bons and watching grass grow.. ), but if he has time to post on several forums he has time to print and send a template letter.

On 3/17/12, I e-mailed him a reminder, and he told me it would go out "this week" ( meaning last week). If it had, I would have it by now.

Here's the thing. I believe Jim got goaded into making an offer for which no program of implementation was in place.

In other words, what he posted was NOT yet standard operating procedure.

The reason that I WANTED to eat crow is that months ago we discussed procedures for proper education regarding disc based hosts, and he said he would look into it at THAT time.

I would have been HAPPY to eat crow had I found a program already implemented- but it hasn't been.

Please understand that I believe that Jim has every intention of following up on his promise, but I believe he jumped the gun when he made it, and the program required had not yet been implemented at the time of posting.

The offer should not have been made if it couldn't be filled at the time.

I really did wish that I didn't have to post this, but I said I would post the results, and I have.

I'm disappointed but not surprised. Everyone on either "side" that I spoke to told me not to hold my breath...

I'm hoping that the program discussed becomes a reality at some point, but......

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe
...I hear where you're coming from. All the legalities of subject matter are getting old to me and I've only been here for a short period of time. I wish I had never gotten back into this business. Because of technology advancements and the ok from the Big 3 to media-shift/media format, I decided to go digital. The rules just keep changing and I don't feel like jumping anymore.

...I can't completely go back to being disc-based because of my Chartbuster Digital Vol. 2, SD Cards and MP3 Discs from PHM but I can just play my SC on discs. What a waste of time ripping. Oh well???

The real shame of it is that there are more and more manus that are allowing media shifting without the hoops. I know people like Harrington and the SC Cheering Squad find it acceptable, but the truth is that SC is punishing everyone that uses their material, in one way or another. Just charging for audits is a punishment in and of itself. They want to keep people in the dark ages and bound to discs, but will allow you to shift IF you pay for the privilege, meanwhile, many of their competitors are just allowing it. Who is eventually going to win in the market?? SC still is afraid to make new music, while everyone else is making plenty of new music. It's quite sad.

And of course waiting for lawyers to do what they say they are going to do is like waiting for me to shut up about SC and their many problematic policies.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

We also applied to be certified as disc-based hosts. We were told there would be a delay due to the loss of two employees who were developing/administering the audit programs. One loss was a sudden and unexpected death which seemed like a good enough reason for me as far as it being a small company. Even some of the people who signed up for regular audits have experienced delays.

You can't fault anyone for employee death.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

100% Not true. I am a GEM licensee #1 and have neither paid for an audit nor had an audit requested. I have not been harassed, contacted or visited. No financial records requested, not knocks on the door, no shadowy strangers at my shows, nothing...and they know where I live.

And I do not expect any of the above to happen as I do not steal/pirate their work.

Loss-leader marketing. And you are playing your part as predicted.

Not a slam to you in the least... it's simply a marketing method.

Well....Mr. Harrington seems to have a great deal of time to read and post on this, as well as other forums. Mr. Slep seems to have time to visit customers and personally perform audits (can you say photo and marketing op?). A letter like what you are looking for (and I believe are due) would take about five minutes to write (three if Mr. Harrington had his assistant do it (we're faster)). I think the issue is more than there is no additional money to be made from you, so therefore, you are not a priority.

Now that they are raising their audit prices, I can see why that is where they would put their energy. However, I think there is a real issue here -- when disc-based hosts are not getting the same credibility as "certified hosts," simply because they didn't pay for an audit and sign the...eh hem...interesting agreement that is a requirement in order to get certified. It would be downright unfair if you couldn't get a job against a "certified KJ" simply because SC was only marketing those that went through the audit, despite your legal status. Really unfair.

Good luck to ya, Mr. Chartreuse. I'm still digging out discs, so I'll get back to you on those Lost Classics.

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Birdofsong

Joe, your letter is sitting on my desk. I actually had approval at the time I posted that, but then we got to thinking about it and decided we wanted just a little bit more for that program. Your letter was approved immediately, because we've seen your discs. Anyway, we did get thrown for a loop last week--very bad week overall. It will go out tomorrow.

The good news is that we will be adding disc-based hosts to the certified list with minimal verification and no charge. More details to come.

Does that mean totally disc based, or just SC disc based? Second question, is there a minimum of SC discs needed to be owned??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Don't you mean pwned?

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KNOW THYSELF

God, I hate when people say that.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

My point was missed, Jim. I wasn't worried about approval. I knew who had seen my discs and how my show was run. Hell, I wasn't ( and still am not) worried about any certification. My request was simply a test. I wanted to find out if the program offered was actually in effect at that time- it was not. ("we got to thinking about it and decided we wanted just a little bit more for that program" kind of shows that.

If that were the case, then the offer should not have been put on the table until and unless said program was available.

However, if and when I receive something, I will update here.

BTW, Jim, just a reminder that I did request it on both letterheads if possible..

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

You can spin it anyway you want.

He stated that everyone is being "punished". I haven't been punished in the least.

"no shadowy strangers at my shows"

....You might get a little nervous if you had a fellow like me at your show

I'm not "spinning" anything and specifically pointed out that it was NOT a slam to you in the least....

However, now that you mention it.... I would think that the leasing agreement you signed is pretty "punishing" on its own....

But that's just me...

Just to be clear, we have had a long-time policy of providing that letter, and in fact it has been provided in the past (though not a lot). The discussion prompted us to consider whether there wasn't something more we needed to be doing in terms of verification. When that policy was developed, we did not do audits, and we were not as aggressive about pursuing venues for hiring pirates.



I'm aware of that.

Of course you did. Right after saying I was "Playing my part, as expected" which implies all sorts of things including being some kind of SC puppet.



I signed it almost two years ago and haven't heard from them. How on earth is that punishing?

Now...if I pirate/steal/dupe/publish the material, then it becomes VERY punishing.

Of course you can't leave out the possibility of "human error."

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Birdofsong

And Ancient Astronaut Theorists believe the Pyramids are space ports. Just because you believe something and spout it to ad nauseum and twisting what you say to fit your theory doesn't make it so. Especially when experts on Egypt who studied and investigated thoroughly and back up by peers say otherwise. Oh sure the ATT will get people to believe them just from the ad nauseum claims and people will just want to believe regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

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You can be strange but not a stranger