Karaoke Forums

Is there a time frame on the release of the details of the new system?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

The best I can say is "soon" at this point. It should be closer to 2 weeks than 2 months. It's a question of a technical implementation.

Thanks!

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Actually, and also as previously stated, I didn't "want" or "need" anything. I'm original disc based- that's all I "need".

Also as previously stated, I made the request to find out if the offer would be honored as stated- period.

There is no reason it shouldn't have been.

Why? Because if I WASN'T original disc-based, I couldn't show it to a venue anyway! It would ONLY have been useful for an ODB host!
Obviously, a PC KJ couldn't show it, nor could a disc based host with binders full of burns and counterfeits- there were instructions ( some erroneous) on how to spot these. The letter would have been safe to send to anyone.



As for the site: I never really wanted my name on an SC site anyway. Again, it was just a test of the offer.

However, it was probably the "hall pass" thought, along with me being me, that cause the offer not to be honored.

I'm not tearing anyone up here, and it was never my intent to do so. It was simply a test for observational purposes.

I simply believe the offer was posted before it had Kurt's approval, and it didn't get it. I think both the early posting and Kurt's lack of approval were bad mistakes, but so be it.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

My guess would be that when you said you were getting it, we all said, "I want one too," and then they had to go "whoa," and figue out a system for doing it that could allow people who's show they didn't visit to qualify. And that meant having people show their discs which meant needing to make it fair across the board. I have had someone at our show see we are a disc show but they didn't look at every disc so I figure I will just show the photos once they figure it out. I don't think it is so much against you as having to re-invent something that was working one way on a limited basis but is now being opened up to others large scale.

While that would have been a good explanation, that's really not what happened.

In fact, there was only one other request, made well after the original request, and after we had announced that we would be having a certification program for ODB hosts.

Wonder if that was me--I had emailed and called about it--but there were some others on here mentioning they would be interested in it so I thought maybe the demand might be rising.

I seem to recall PM-ing you with a request asking how I could get listed on SC's website before you made your announcement publicly that you and SC were trying to formulate some type of program.





You got EXACTLY what was offered. You even stated that much (without showing us the entire letter you received). There was never any offer made to have you listed on SC's website. If there was, show me the EXACT WORDING. You tried to play a game with a Lawyer, and you lost.

Yes and no. They managed to PARTIALLY meet the exact wording of the offer by sending me a letter- useless as it was. However, as far as meeting being "treated exactly as a Sound Choice certified host" - they failed.

Again, I believe that Jim had every intention of honoring the offer in word AND in spirit. I think he put the offer out there prior to Kurt's approval because he knew it was a gimme- or should have been.

Again, a properly written letter could have been sent to ANYONE- certified or not, simply because only an ODB host could show it or use it. Anyone else- PC host or burned disc host- would have been damaged by it. It would have been an excellent aid to fence-mending, and it should have been a safe bet. Unfortunately, I believe Kurt exhibited his lack of managerial skills ( a GREAT marketer, but management- proven not so much- ...) with a veto.

To repeat, no biggie. I requested, and I observed. For those who were expecting a big "credibility" or "trust" ripping- sorry, I just don't think Jim was at fault- I think Kurt just hung him out to dry...and had no concience problems doing so...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

QUOTE:
letter to be sent to you on SC letterhead or my firm's letterhead--your choice--explaining that a host who uses original Sound Choice-branded discs only is considered by us to be a fully compliant, legal operator, and should be treated exactly the same as a Sound Choice Certified KJ
END QUOTE

A letter stating the above, which, if you were to use it (translation: show it to a potential place of business where you would like to host a show), then they did meet their requirement to you. Nowhere does it say that the potential client HAS TO treat you the same as a Certified KJ, and nowhere does that letter state you will be listed in SC's website as such.

The one part within this portion of the letter which I do not approve of how it's worded, is the part that says "uses original Sound Choice-branded discs only..." . I would like it to be a little more broader, to reflect all brands... in other words, REMOVE the part in there that says Sound Choice. Of course, I would still need to figure out a way to have my custom made tracks included in this as well (custom tracks that I ordered from legit sites, but ordered the download versions and burned them to disc myself).

In all fairness....It doesn't matter what the letter says. The owner/operator/venue can treat you however they like - be that pirate, ODB certified, or non-certified.

I know that showing my certifications doesn't cause them to gush with praise and beg me to do a show for them at an acceptable rate. We all recognize that cash is king (or at least the smaller amount of cash they have to pay the more kingly it becomes for the venue).

My point is this - no matter what the paperwork says, the owner/operator/venue can't be compelled to treat an ODB host, a certified host, or thief in any particular manner.

-Chris

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-Chris

Cue, unfortunately Jim and/or Sound Choice can only state thing in reference to their own product, but I do understand what you mean. Which is why there should be a national or even better an international "clearing house" in regard to 1:1 copy or harddrive karaoke. Of course, the complaint will be that something like this will cost money so a fee, similar to AVLA or PCR (sic) would most likely be implemented and some people won't want to do it.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

But this has nothing to do with 1:1... This topic thread is about ODB KJs, and Joe's challange to HL.



"...explaining that a host who uses original Sound Choice-branded discs only is considered by us to be a fully compliant, legal operator, and should be treated exactly the same as a Sound Choice Certified KJ"...

Maybe if the wording had something added, such as,
...We (Sound Choice) do not oversee other Manufacturer brands, as our (Sound Choice) MAIN CONCERN is with our own product. Bearing in mind that a Host may also use other brand-name discs, in order to be considered COMPLETEY as a fully compliant, legal operator, he/she/they should be using ORIGINAL discs for those brands as well.

I would still like to see the word "ONLY" removed from that text.

Almost everything that I have read, it appears that Sound Choice is putting the emphasis on Sound Choice. In the process, they are making it sound like they are the only ones out there when they talk about media shifting and being 1:1, and to look for KJs that are listed on their website as being Certified. Even this letter that HL put out as an offer to people like Joe and me, ONLY refers to Sound Choice, while making it sound like you can't be operating legally without the use of their product. Basically, I am looking to have the oneness removed from Sound Choice.

I'm sure this could be simpled (is that even a word) down a bit. I believe that Joe Chartreuse is treating this letter as if it were an actual contract (legal and binding). If that is the case, then the less you state in a letter of this nature, the better (because the more wording you use, the more loopholes you can find).





Point well taken.

Cue, it could extend to ODB also. A central registry.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

But since something like that does not exists for KJs in the US, why bring it up?

If a majority of the venues cared, it might matter. In my market, no less than 4 KJs named in SC suits more than one year ago are still working 3-4 nights per week, some at the very same venues where they were named. I've heard more than one owner say (roughly), "It's not my business to run the KJs business, and I'm not any more liable for how they get their music than I am if they drive here in a stolen vehicle (or a couple of other similar comparisons)"

We just got a new show on Wednesday night (replacing one of those named KJs I might add) and the venue didn't ask one single question about legality of our karaoke tracks. We didn't solicit this venue, they contacted us, but they're replacing him because he continues to sing more than the customers, after being warned more than once. Nothing to do with his being named in SC suit.

.....Just pointing out something here, not trying to be a jerk or smart-a$$
....I understand where you're coming from Chris BUT it SHOULD make a difference in the Venue's Choices of a new or replacement KJ, especially if the Venue is concerned about being named in a Potential Law Suit but still has the desire to provide Karaoke in their Venue. If the Venue doesn't know that's one thing but if the Venue does know, that's another. Perhaps the venue doesn't care but should.

....An example, let's say the Venue has decided to put out the "Now Hiring KJ" sign. Two KJ's show up. Both KJ's appear to be equal in Talent, Personality, Equipment, Music Library, Crowd/Singer Following and Pricing. EXCEPT one has Legit Certificates (is computer based and has been listed as a Certified KJ on the Karaoke Sites) yet the other KJ has No Certificates and is Disc-Based (the disc-based KJ knows that he/she is completely legal but no certificate or approved paperwork from the participating Karaoke Manufacturers).

....Keep in mind, let's just say the Venue hasn't been named in any previous Law Suit. However, the Certified KJ (for hire) has warned the Venue about the chance of a Law Suit and has proof that he/she is Certified. Which one do you THINK the Venue will or should hire?

....Kind of leaves the Disc-Based out, doesn't it?

QUOTE:
I know that showing my certifications doesn't cause them to gush with praise and beg me to do a show for them at an acceptable rate.
END QUOTE

....You may claim the above quote but you did say Certification and being posted on the Karaoke Manufacture's Site as a Certified KJ did help you....An earlier post of yours:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23298

....Again, not trying to be a jerk. I think it's a good tool for your business in the following ways: 1)to educate others (KJ's & Venues), 2)it covers your butt and 3)it obviously has helped you in landing a gig or two according to your post "I just picked up a new gig. The System works...."

Thank you Madmusic... I was just going to address Chris on almost the same thing regarding the fact that being Certified helped him obtain a gig that he wasn't even looking for. Now, if I were to have had that letter in question (pertaining to ODB KJs), it probably would not have made any difference for me if I hadn't approached the place either.

@MadMusicOne and @Cueball

While it is true I did pick up this gig specifically because I was listed on the Sound Choice site, it is going to be a fairly rare circumstance. That said, I have also held that line that one of the reasons I decided to get certified with PHM, CB and SC was to use the certifications as a marketing tool. Whatever edge I can get, I will take.

I absolutely believe there should be a certification program for ODB hosts. Harrington says that SC is working on one. The ODB folks need to put some pressure on CB and Stellar to follow suit.

If you want to know how I really feel about it - Rip your discs down and go computer based.

It is 2012. The digital age (MP3+G) has been upon us for over a decade. Physical discs are a legacy format and are rapidly being replaced by non-physical forms of distribution. In my opinion, the discs are nothing more than a container for what is actually being used. Discs are nothing more than a delivery mechanism. What they contain begs to live in a form that is easier to manage, easier to use, easier to backup and protect.

-Chris

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-Chris

[quote="chrisavis"]@MadMusicOne and @Cueball

While it is true I did pick up this gig specifically because I was listed on the Sound Choice site, it is going to be a fairly rare circumstance....MMO's Response:I hope it changes in the future. That said, I have also held that line that one of the reasons I decided to get certified with PHM, CB and SC was to use the certifications as a marketing tool. Whatever edge I can get, I will take.
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I absolutely believe there should be a certification program for ODB hosts. Harrington says that SC is working on one.MMO's Response: I agree. The ODB folks need to put some pressure on CB and Stellar to follow suit.

If you want to know how I really feel about it - Rip your discs down and go computer based.

....MMO's Response: Chris, I started ripping well over a year ago. When I got back into the business almost 3 years ago I was still Disc-Based. Although many other KJ's had chosen to go the laptop route years ago, I remained disc-based. Plus, I had limited computers skills and definitely not enough to run a show off a computer. Once the Big 3 started posting about being 1:1, I decided to give it a try. Went through a lot of trial and error trying to rip karaoke discs. Estimated time used ripping & re-ripping Karaoke CDG/DJ CD music over 1200 hours in the last year's(+) time. Partly due to Graphic Errors and the DESIRE for better sound from my previously ripped 128 to re-ripping at 320.


It is 2012. The digital age (MP3+G) has been upon us for over a decade. Physical discs are a legacy format and are rapidly being replaced by non-physical forms of distribution. In my opinion, the discs are nothing more than a container for what is actually being used. Discs are nothing more than a delivery mechanism. What they contain begs to live in a form that is easier to manage, easier to use, easier to backup and protect....MMO Respose: I agree and the Manufacturers have for years but it was the laws that protected them and licensing that held them back from opening up Pandora's "Digital Hard Drive Storage" Box.

....MMO Resonse: Once again, I completely agree for supporting the Manufacturers. In reality, all Karaoke Manufacturers should know where all of their property is (commercial and private users). Unfortunately, they/we had no idea where technology was going back then (80's-90's) when Karaoke CDG's first came out (plus no serial numbers on CDG's or a place to register each CDG). There's no doubt that Laptops & Media Storage Devises have made a KJ's Hosting Business so much easier but has cost Karaoke Manufactures money and frustrations due to the pirates and has forced the Legit KJ to lower prices to compete.

....Also, I'm certified with Chartbuster. I've bought directly through Stellar Records (via Tony). They know who I am and have pics of "my plastic/their IP" of CDG's, SD Cards and Hard Drive on file.

....As for SC, they do know or should know several of my transactions because I still have the shipping boxes with their UPS Shipping Labels (SC's return address) on them even though purchased through their "Authorized Dealers."

....I do want to include SC in my Karaoke Library but I am cautious about signing an agreement that gives up my rights. Again, no offense to those that have. I posted my thoughts here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=23530

....Also, Eric's post "Sound Choice Audit Info" and video caught my attention, especially around 6:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0e-1R6C ... t_received

....At this point, the only way for me to stay legal in SC's eyes (from what I understand) is to play my Legally Purchased SC CDG's on a player. My player will no longer be a Physical CDG Player but will be my laptop since I've found software that will play CDG's along with my Digital Library. When I do play a SC CDG, I will just have to make an announcement and hold up the SC CDG. May seem awkward but not a big deal in my eyes.

....For those of us that want to be a Certified Disc-Based Host and or partially Disc-Based/Digital Laptop (such as myself) and take advantage of the SC Site Listings and have a Certificate for the Venue/s, I think it should be offered and sounds like it will be. On a side note, Venues should be more informed as to what they're getting into as far as using a KJ or Hosting Karaoke for their patrons, without scaring them away from using a KJ or Hosting Karaoke Shows in their Venue/s.

.... All of the above MMO comments and responses are only a personal opinion and are free to be debated or bashed. Have a Good Day.