Karaoke Forums

Didn't you state somewhere that you just started KJ-ing about 1 1/2 years ago? If so, that does make you relatively new to Karaoke. Maybe you've been around a long time as a Singer, and you've gained a lot of knowledge to how KJs operate (both legally and illegally), and you probably do know more than some might give you credit for, BUT, you are not the authority on all that is Karaoke.


First you say:

And then you turn around and say this:

What you wrote sounds more like you are subtly telling SC NOT to implement any such program that would include ODB KJs.





Well, I for one have given HL (what I felt to be) some valid suggestions which were rejected. One thing I suggested was to do away with their "Confidentiality Agreement," and release the names and locations of all KJs that were operating illegally. At the very least, release the names/locations of those who were outright "Pirates," who did not take the Settlement terms of purchasing/leasing their GEM series, and chose to go out of business instead. My reasoning for this is that as a KJ, you pretty much know who the other KJs are in your area. You might not socialize or even work with them, but you are aware of who they are. If you were aware of a KJ who was a KNOWN PIRATE, who had just been sued by SC and opted to go out of business, you would know if that KJ was still in business (whether it be under a new name or not). With that knowledge, you could then inform SC of this, and SC could take further legal actions against that KJ (stiff fines for breaking a Court Order and even jail time could be some of those legal actions).

And I will ask again: Who is "we?" Who exactly are you speaking for? Would Cueball be included in your list? Joe C., HarringtonLaw, Phill, Lonman, or everyone else you can possibly think of.... and is it okay by them for you to include them in your list of "we?"

BTW, I wasn't "snarky" at all.... You said "we" and I simply asked for a clarification... and that is in no way snarky.



I would have to disagree and state that it is baiting and now all of sudden it's "what I have observed?" What happened to "We?"


This is ridiculous. You've got more twists than "Tastee-Freeze."



You're certainly entitled to your (own) opinion.... as "snarky" as it may appear.
Please give us an example of what you determine to be as you call it: "You track record from public legal records..."

What "track record from public legal records" are you talking about?


Did you even bother to read Cueball's post? You are apparently so deeply inserted into SC's propaganda that the only thing you can see is intestines and maybe a kidney or two...


And they are the ones "most engaged" with profiting off their "scare campaigns" with venues. An apparent majority of their income is derived from lawsuits. You benefit directly from that and are grateful that they're doing it... I get it. Is this why your so defensive on their behalf? Your jobs are soley dependent on their references? I would surmise that it would be extremely difficult for you to get a gig --on your own -- using your vast disc collection and a player without mentioning any of the following words or phrases:
Legal hosts
Illegal copy
Lawsuit
Trademark infringement
Pirate
Sound Choice
Media shift
Compliance
Certification
Safe Harbor
or any other word or phrase related to these legal actions when it comes to karaoke.

But's that's just MY opinion -- I'm not speaking for anyone else.


And that "duration" that you've been here is what? Six months maybe?... And now you believe yourself to be as "educated and all-knowing" as anyone else here? Better than Lonman, Cueball, Joe C., and basically anyone here longer than 5 years?

You give yourself a lot of leeway.... but then again, you do know every thing there is to know about this business anyway right? You apparently know enough to speak on behalf of the rest of the world. There is a distinction between "knowledgeable" and "arrogant."



And it's easy to discount any valid argument by pointing to "personal vendetta." Cheerleaders have been doing that to me for a few years now and it simply means that when they can't properly defend their own arguments, they scoop up mud and go for the personal attack.

How predictable.

That is not a personal attack. It is an opinion that speaks directly to your behavior. You are perpetually taking an anti-Sound Choice stance to the point of obsession, which you cannot deny.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Exactly. Any reasonable person can see that you have issues with SC that go far beyond simply saying "I don't like their tactics".
You have a personal grudge that goes back many years, the reason why I don't know.

I personally won't say that, as I haven't paid attention for that long. But it is not a personal attack to advance that opinion.

If you said "Chip's stance is unreasonable; I bet he's in the pay of Chartbuster", that would be a personal attack.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Are you suggesting that I am not reasonable, or simply that I am not reasonable because I do have issues with SC?



Are you speaking from fact or speculation?

In any case, this thread has been hijacked long enough. It's time to get back to the original topic and that is relating to why Joe did not received the letter which he expected to get.

Any person can point at HarringtonLaw's paragraph and say "he didn't say this word, and he didn't say that word, and he didn't promise this, and he didn't promise that" but when it gets right down to it, any "reasonable person" would know from the context of the previous conversation, exactly what it was Joe was asking for and ultimately, did not receive.

I recognize that SC is making an effort to certify ODB hosts.
I also feel it is a wasted effort since there are so few ODB hosts left and even fewer that will take advantage of an ODB certification.
I believe that if SC does do an ODB certification that a lot of energy will go into creating and administering a program that is already dead on the vine.

I have a lot of respect for ODB hosts. I also have a lot of respect for authors that write their novels with pencils or use typewriters. It doesn't mean I can't feel it to be an antiquated process. It also doesn't mean I can't suggest they modernize.

I have already stated my position on ODB competing against certified. It is a fringe case and it will be more and more fringe every year as fewer and fewer ODB hosts exist.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

I have to agree with Chip. This thread is well out of scope of the OP.

I have spoken my peace.

-Chris

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-Chris

Chris--the problem comes when you view things from your own little world and discount those that aren't in it. It tends to make people feel patronized and demeaned.

As I have already stated, we remained disc not out of lack of technical knowledge but because it was the most legal thing to do. As the most legal users we feel the squeeze from the pirates on the bottom and the computer hosts on the top. You may feel that the numbers are insignificant but in our tiny corner to lose even one bar job can mean losing all of the options in that town.

We are in a low population density area with the highest unemployment in the state. We are all struggling to attract what little expendable income is still out there. Our tipping point is a bit precarious at the moment. As such, we don't need another blow from computer hosts who want to discount us. There is no reason for a legal host who plays disc media in the way it was made to be played to not have the opporutnity to gain equal recognition with certified computer hosts. It may be insignificant statistics to you but it is life and death to us.

And yes, we will switch eventually but the blow the economy has dealt us has slowed that down. In the meantime we will continue to assert that with our lighting, our updating with new music, our engaging of the customers and our creativity in delivering an entertaining show make us just as legitimate a participant in the business as you may be.

Just for statiistical purposes which admittedly probabably don't reflect the more developed part of the US, there are 10 hosts in our area and three of those are still disc-- plus one set who says they are but probably isn't.

Bingo!....

The only problem with this is that in order to gain equal recognition with certified computer hosts, SC demands a fee for this recognition in the form of an audit (and the excuse is "verification" of course) but it's still a fee. Purchasing the product in the first place is apparently not enough.

I don't know what it is about you that keeps you from understanding this, because you've been told many times.

There will be no fee for certifying ODB hosts. Period.

My work schedule (at my regular full-time job) does not allow for me to host a Karaoke show as often as I would like to. If I do 10 shows in the entire year, I've done more than I expected to. Although for me, it is not life or death if I get a gig or not, I agree with the above quoted sentiment.


Chris, I want to be able to say I have equal footing with you as an ODB KJ. With comments like yours, SC may decide that it's not worth their while to implement this program. You had posted that the last gig you picked up was ONLY because you happened to be listed in SC's website as a Certified KJ. With the complications of my regular work-schedule making it difficult for me to host regularly, I'd like to have that Silver Platter handed to me sometime.





Here's where you are mistaken...

Unfortunately, thanks to SC's ERRONEOUSLY using the word "Pirate" for anyone who media shifted without their permission , and the constant erroneous use of the word "legal" for compliant by those who agree with SC's methodology. This probably done for inflammatory propaganda.

1) For the general population, the word "pirate" means "thief"- one who steals. SC has muddied the definition here on the forum, so the distinction must be made between one who steals music , and one that SC defines as a pirate.

2) Being COMPLIANT to SC's terms has absolutely nothing to do with being LEGAL. There must NOW be a distinction made between these two terms as well.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Just a clarification: Cue was not the first to post this opinion- I was.

Go back a few pages to page 2: ....However, after re-reading HL's originally posted offer, I realize that I have been out-smarted, and it's my own fault.

This is why I haven't responded to Cue's comment in that regard.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Great... Got it.... So what's the problem with giving Joe C. what he's been looking for all along? You know he's disc-based, SC knows he's disc-based, the entire "karaoke planet" has known that he has been disc-based.

Why isn't Joe C. certified and with a letter stating so?

If you're not charging a fee then there is no incentive to ever perform one of your "verification audits" to do so.... is there?

You have to admit that you knew exactly what Joe C. was looking for in a letter. You didn't clarify to him that he wouldn't get it and that's the whole purpose of this thread: Joe did not get what he believes (and I'm sure others did too) he was going to get.

You (or perhaps I should say "your client") has handed out a few hall passes before for media shifters but I can't understand why you're so reluctant to "certify" a disc-based KJ.... it makes no reasonable sense.

I don't know why Chris quoted Chip's post, I agree with both. The offer, as stated, could only be honored in the smallest part, and not well. Done and over, having met expectations. Moving past it, I ask that you read the "General Letter" thread. This would be an easy solution, If SC had the thinking capability...

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."