Karaoke Forums

Chip, Chip, Chip
Try as you might I am not going to let you rain on my parade......It is not a double standard...look at the definitions again (where in MY definition does it say anything about publishers/third party rights holders?).Our little group is working out very well in my little part of the world...have fun playing in yours

Goodbye

Athena

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I have spoken with many track pirates that have the exact same attitude about their libraries. They too figure they can just keep going as they are until they are caught and that the consequences of being caught are minimal compared to what they gain before they are caught. The only difference is they don't advocate for any manufacturer; they treat them all equally as they decide for themselves which laws are important enough for them to obey.

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KNOW THYSELF

Earthling,

Hench my statement... It is up to every host to decide what liabilities they are willing to accept and be willing to pay the price for the decision they make . I have made it a priority to insure that in my little part of the world are informed....I did not know of the SC suit before I was named but I did own ALL my discs and requested a audit within 72 hours of receiving the intent to sue.
I advocate for SC/CB/Stellar because I believe they have a right to be paid for the product they produce/produced and also because they are the only ones I see doing anything to help preserve the business I LOVE
I have never seen anything in writing that states I have to research and receive permission from publishers/third party rights holders to use the music I have purchased? Even with disc such as 8125 so yes I am willing to accept that level of liability. If a Track Thief is willing to pay $10,000 and get a enjoinment from ever running digital karaoke without written permission of all manus....instead of buying the music at a discount with free financing...fine they just don't get the right to b***h about it later

Blessings
Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Athena, to take it a bit further, are you using any others besides SC, CB & Stellar?
If so, you are also infringing on someones IP rights. What other companies have you gotten certified to use on computer?
we will not be like this with Stellar as they do not require certification to use their mp3+g discs on computer. they dont even offer certification, just buying a license for all their material so you can download it from torrents.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Paradigm,
To answer you question yes, I am using other no defunct Mfr's discs ...and no I have not received permission to convert them. I do however have over 100 emails showing my personal due diligence in attempting to contact the people (if any) that hold the rights to request permission and my requests. And I can show a 1-1 disc for each and every track I use up to and including my LD collections.
And yes Stellar's current CAP program is designed to allow for permission to use about 4000 not all of the tracks they own)of their tracks prior to 2007(no matter where you get them ) for the cost of the program. I do wish that would instead offer audits (again) for hosts that have not stolen the tracks.
I do not try and hide from the "hard questions" and make every attempt to be as transparent as possible both on the forums and off.

Blessings
Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

DING, DING, DING!..... Paradigm "gets it." (give 'em a cee-gar)

Using tracks from JVC, All Hits, Nutech, Music Maestro and a dozen others without permission would - by Athena's own definition - make you a "technical infringer" no matter who you are.

Actually, MM can be bought from Tricerasoft. All hits is mostly SGB, who is owned by CB who WILL give you permission to rip them.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

ALL HITS I realized I do have a email with permission as long as I am 1 to 1( the ones I have purchased are not SGB but do contain Sunfly, and other logo snippetts).

Tricerasoft may sell MM but I do not personally trust them and have not had any luck tracking down anyone who claims to own the rights as of yet.

I have received permission now for SGB

I found an email from over 2 years ago from someone at Pioneer(have to verify if said person was correct person)to convert my pioneer products.......so

I guess I am 3 more manu's down.

Thank you for posting the info Smoothedge....It did make me look back over all the email trails

Blessings
Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

You are quite welcome Athena. That's what I am getting from each one, as long as I am 1:1 I can shift. I'm quite happy with that.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

That would mean You, I, and many others are technical infringers as well unless we have all gotten permission. Since most of the sites do not post a public policy declaration, then it seems it is up to each of us to obtain permission individually.

Your pot is just as black as my kettle.

-Chris

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-Chris

I never said it wasn't, but then again, it isn't my definition either. Problem here is that some believe if you get permission from 3 that their kettle somehow has changed to white.

I'm sure I'm about to make a point that's been parroted around here a million times before, as well as other mediums that involve piracy, but I'm new here, so bare with me:

I feel like if you purchase the sing, you're free to do with it what you will. There are similar cases with video games (especially) who are being boycotted and even sued because some companies send out "updates" to games that wipe the disc if the game is modded in any way, even if it's offline and offers no advantage to the player.

It would be like, if you buy a book, and the publisher walks into your house and sets the book on fire because you were using it as a paper weight.

Otherwise, I agree with you on the point of "track thieves".

Roche Coach,

First off welcome to the forums...I hope you find lots of useful information here.

I do understand how you feel on the issue of media-shifting, however the legal situation is not the way ANY of us would like things to be. Legally a Trademark holder has to treat all infringement the same to protect the interest they hold in the product.

SC/CB (and hopefully Stellar soon)allow media shifting IF you undergo an audit. Do you have a suggestion as to another way to tell a technical infringer from a Track thief ?

I look forward to seeing more of your post in the future

Blessings
Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I see a way. Come up with a way to have electronic transactions, like iTunes does, where the tracks are monitored and are only allowed to be moved within a certain amount of computers. iTunes allows your tunes to be on 5 computers. After that they don't allow you to move them, anymore, unless you cancel a computer. The karaoke manus can do the same thing, but only allow one computer. Meanwhile they could keep track of what you own, in case you have a hard drive go down. Then you could re-download the tracks you lost. iTunes does that, too.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Manufacturers in this industry were offered that back in 2004 by a company that makes hosting software. They refused.

SmoothEdge,

That is a very good concept and one that I can see possibly working for transactions in the future if the manufacturers can get legal rights here in the USA to offer downloads for commercial use. Those are the kind of ideas that are very helpful Thank you.

What alternate method can you envision for safeguarding the tracks that have already been sold/purchased? (other than audits...for hosts such as myself that have been in the biz for many years and have a sizable amount already invested)

Blessings
Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

But Sound Choice doesn't really get to change the definition of "purchase," if what they're actually "selling" is a license to lease the music out. In which case, they can lay out all the rules they want. But they use the word purchase. I bought the music, I have the physical copy, I own it, as well as the license to make money off of it, and I will do with it what I please. They can bring up all the litigation they want against me when they find me copying my hard drive and selling them. But I'm not doing that, so there's no "crime" (so to speak).

again you are correct Roche Coach...you do own the right to use the CDG's you purchased. You just do not have the right to convert them and use the converted files without the written permission from the rights holders....That is as the laws of the US are written ( it is a civil "crime" just to convert). Hench the "all rights reserved" printed on each disc. Again I will say we all have things we do not like about Facts....but that does not make them less valid. I personally do not like income taxes and think a flat tax on all purchase makes more sense, However I can not just stop paying income tax because I do not agree.

Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Please show me the law that says I don't actually own the products I purchase. Also, please show me the terms of service you think I agreed to (protip: I never agreed to any terms of service, or product) that said I'm purchasing a mere license to use THEIR product. Until you can show me one or both of these things, any lawyer worth half the chair they sit on in court will get that lawsuit thrown out in seconds.

Roche Coach,
Do yourself a HUGE favor and read a bunch of the older threads. I am doing my best to try and answer you in a care manner....others on this forum may not be so kind in the replies they post. I really dont care to see you or your opinions attacked.

Good Luck

Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey