Karaoke Forums

How is that music (non-karaoke) can be purchased, ripped and or downloaded and played by DJ's without permission?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

"How is that music (non-karaoke) can be purchased, ripped and or downloaded and played by DJ's without permission?"

No where did you state it is legal. Please show the law, act, or case law where it says one can do this.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Can you show where it's illegal to do so?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Why do you insist on playing this game timberlea? You are demanding that someone show you something that you know doesn't exist... at least not the way you're asking for it.

Here's an example of how ridiculous that is:

Please show the law, act, case law or even a newspaper clipping where it says that you are not a (choose-any-expletive-you-want).

You can't.

You can't because it doesn't exist. And because it doesn't exist, you can't expect someone to disprove --or prove-- what doesn't exist. So your question is invalid right out of the starting gate and it's crafted so you can say; "See? I told you so."

I might as well ask you if you've stopped abusing little animals because ANY answer you give will make you look bad:

Chip: "timberlea, have you stopped abusing little animals?

timberlea: "I have never abused little animals and I'm insulted that you would suggest such an act!"

Chip; "So you are denying that you abused little animals... do you have any proof that you haven't or were they big ones instead?"

It's nothing more than a game and a trap.

It can't be. To do so would violate one of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner in the underlying musical work: the right of public performance. 17 U.S.C. 106. That is the reason why venues pay license fees to ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.

However, due to a quirk in the copyright law, there is no public performance right in sound recordings, so there is no permission needed from the recording artist.

Karaoke tracks are audiovisual works, which DO carry the public performance right. They also carry trademarks, which operate under a different set of rules.

So what you're saying is permission is obtained conditionally from the copyright owner of the underlying work if the venue is paying its fees to ACAP, BMI and SESAC and the owner is represented by one or more of those orgs?

And if the recording artist is not the copyright owner they have no rights to the sound recordings in regards to the public performance and couldn't grant those rights even if they wanted to?

_________________
My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

....Obviously a lot of us here are concerned with what's legal and what's not. I was also concerned about (non-karaoke music). Ripping CD's and if a DJ/KJ could use Legally non-karaoke Downloadable Music (from legal sites such as Amazon, iTunes, e-music, etc.) or some type of Legal DJ Music Subscription (such as idjnow).

.....I searched many sites for an answer and found this:
http://riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?cont ... ne_the_law
.....At the bottom of the page titled "Copying Cds"

.....However, I still had questions about the legal download sites and legal DJ Music Subscription Clubs. So I called RIAA and spoke with a guy named (maybe I shouldn't type his name here). Can't quote him exactly but as long as you either have the original CD's from ripping, have receipts from the Legally approved sites that you purchased those downloads from and the proper licenses have been paid for at the commercial venue, you SHOULD be OK. Any music tracks that you can't prove you legally purchased would be considered "Piracy" and you would be held accountable.

.....Also the 1:1 applies to those that are multi-riggers. From what I was told, best I can remember, is "they" (any U.S. Law Enforcement affiliated with enforcing music laws) are going after those who are using and selling bootleg music (counterfeit cd's/dvd's or digital files) on the streets and or internet (sharing files, selling loaded hard drives or any other unauthorized copies).

.....I did question about the "Not for Commercial Use" on several sites. He did say, "Unfortunately, most people don't read that. However, if a DJ were to use those downloads in a commercial venue (all fees paid by venue), most likely the worst thing that could happen to that person (DJ) is that Amazon, iTunes or any other legal site would/could stop selling to you but in the eyes of RIAA, you would have purchased a legal copy of the music BUT save those original CD's and legally downloaded music receipts."

.....By the way, I have no proof (in writing or recorded conversation) between myself and the RIAA agent. But, if I were concerned about what is legal and what isn't I would definitely call RIAA or any other organization that enforces copyrighted music laws. I was just mainly concerned about using my ripped Music CD's and a possible music subscription with idjnow in a Commercial Venue.

.....Even though I felt secure about my ripped Music CD's after that conversation, I seriously don't know? So don't take my word on it. Am I still kind of confused? Well...yes, no, maybe? Any other suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Yes, and that covers probably 99.99% of all songs that are likely to be played.



Yes, for "DJ music" that's exactly right--unless the performance involves a digital audio transmission, which generally involves streaming.

Karaoke is a different animal, however.

Certainly that is the basis for your work.

_________________
[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

An interesting thought comes to mind. Back when I started, I was using cassette tapes for the music, and lyric sheets held by the singer for lyrics.

I never thought about it back then, but I'm guessing that since no lyrics or logos were publicly displayed, there could not have been any distinction made between karaoke and DJ tracks.

ahhhh......progress!

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I thought this was about catching people who steal music, but most of the argument seems to be about media shifting, from LEGALLY purchased music, at 1:1 ratio. Now that's not legal anymore either, unless you PAY for permission? Have any ACTUAL pirate KJs been caught and dealt an actual court ordered payment to SC, CB or whoever? Prison time? Or just sold a Gem series and allowed to continue business?

Definition of pirate being someone who STOLE their music via IRC/Torrent download etc., not a 1:1 media shifter.

i would like to think otherwise, but from what i have seen, actual thieves are not being hunted yet. they seem to be going for all of the "technical offenders" (aka ripped their discs) for right now.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Yea right they do it now and don't pay a cent!

and they vote too!!!!!

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Nope--don't know why she was turned away--too crowded? Who knows, but she was. I followed it for quite some time. There was a car wreck that closed the highway and she was on an offramp. The ambulance couldn't get through due to the stopped traffic. When it finally did, they radioed ahead to tell the doctors they were coming in and the person on the other end said that she wasn't sure they could take her. The ambulance driver said in a rather terse voice, "Tell them, we're coming."

Athena can explain it but there are different definitions of "emergency" that can be used depending on if it is a private or public hospital. Private can say life or death vs just an injury. If it were a dog, we couldn't have turned it away at a vet hospital--we have to offer some sort of aid or pain relief or --ultimate relief. So I was really shocked to learn about what is happening to all of my human friends.