Karaoke Forums

I was told by Greg Taylor today that Digitrax Karaoke is going to start pursuing karaoke pirates hard. I am certified through Chartbuster and am in the process with Sound Choice. I bought the CB 12,000+ hard drive, and the complete SC Gem Series. I do not own any Stellar Records products. I hope Digitrax comes into the Salem, Oregon area and kicks some major as* on piracy. SC already has, and cleaned out alot of KJ's.

How can that be if there is already "Piracy Recovery LLC" suing as the successor to Chartbuster?

Because PR is an affiliate of Digitrax that now owns the trademarks in question.

My point exactly.... the trademarks and PR are owned by Digitrax... PR is their "litigation division."

Too bad.... I thought we were gonna start with a fresh slate. Instead we get;

"Hi we're Digitrax and we want you to buy our product!"

and right behind;

"Hi we're Piracy Recovery and we are watching you because you bought our product....."

But as long as you stay employed HarringtonLaw, that's all that matters.

Maybe they will go after true pirates, and not just media shifters like Sound Choice has done.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Are you saying that Sound Choice is only targeting media shifters? That they are not going after people that have "shifted" tracks for which they don't and probably never have owned the original media?

-Chris

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-Chris

Media shifters are different than thieves, however, the media shifters do get caught up in the nets if they haven't volunteered for their audits before hand. But that is not who they are targetting as a primary - never was.

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Maybe not, but the media shifters have certainly become a nice little profit center....

Bonus!

But if the media shifter gets caught, they show their discs and are on their way. Whether they have to pay for the audit at that point - I don't know. Guess they should have audited earlier!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

An interesting read on "Nominative Fair Use" regarding Trademarks

http://www.internetlibrary.com/topics/t ... airuse.cfm

....I think Harrington or someone, somewhere, stated that the fee was going up from free, if caught operating without certification, to $500.00. I could be wrong.

See, this is why I won't use Sound Choice. "if caught operating without certification", is not a reason to start a suit against someone. That is exactly what they mean when they say that media shifters get caught in the net.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Let me get this straight.

Smoothedge69 - I won't use Sound Choice products because if I get get caught shifting with out permission they will sue me.

I am not trying to beat you up, just trying to point out what you are really saying.

-Chris

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-Chris

One thing I think is being overlooked in all of this, the karaoke host that is displaying a trademark is doing exactly that: "displaying." They are not using it in the context of a trademark anymore than they are using the lyrics within the song to convince the audience that they have written poetry.

When a singer comes up to sing a song, and the audience sees a trademark for DK, Star disk, pop his monthly or any other brand, the patrons in the room and the patrons singing the song are not confused. No one in the room believes that the name of the karaoke company is suddenly "pop hits monthly" or that "tonight karaoke is brought to you by Star disk." So in the sense of a trademark "being displayed," that is true; a trademark is displayed. However, that trademark is not being used by the karaoke company "in the context of a trademark."

When you're flipping through channels on your television, and you come across the beginning of a Walt Disney movie with a splash screen that says "Buena Vista television" do you believe that that is the trademark of the device that you're watching the movie on? Are you confused as to the origin of that movie?

No. I don't like their way of doing things, so i won't use them, in ANY form. I kind of figured that it was clear by now. I am going to use brands that will give me permission WITHOUT jumping through hoops. I am not a poodle.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

....Thanks, makes for good reading!

I think what you are pointing out is an incorrect assumption.

Try this instead;

"I won't use sound choice products because if I use a computer – which is what I want to do – then there is too great a risk of being sued than I will accept."

While it's true that you may have paid for your certifications in order to avoid any possible future confrontations, others see that as a payment of protection money. And an unnecessary expense if you have already purchased the product. And while you claim it does not guarantee that you will not be sued in the future, can you explain then why the payment was made at all? Because before certification, you had no guarantee that you would not be sued and even after certification, you still have no guarantee that you would not be sued. So what is the point?

If it's not protection money, and it doesn't guarantee you from being sued, what possible advantage can it give you? The advantage that it gives you is in the vendor who is threatening to sue venues. That vendor is telling venues that "if you select a KJ that we have certified, then you will reduce your chances of being sued greatly." And that, my friend, is simply another form of "protection money" that you are paying for the vendor to convince venues to hire you first. It has nothing to do with your capability as a professional, it has nothing to do with the equipment you use, it has nothing to do with your entertainment value, it has nothing to do with your library meaning the number or quality of songs contained therein.

If you feel that purchasing your place at the beginning of the line is a smart investment rather than earning your place at the beginning of the line on your own merits, then that's certainly your prerogative. But make no mistake, your certification is not a reference of abilities or capabilities. It's simply a proof of purchase – to the beginning of a line that was created through selling fear.

When I see Buena Vista, I believe they had a hand in the production of the movie and they have given some sort of blessing for the recording to be shown. If it said something else (or nothing at all) I might be compelled to think that someone else was the responsible party (or no one was responsible....which would raise an eyebrow since someone is most assuredly responsible). It also gives me a reference point for identifying whom to contact for that specific version of the movie I am watching in the event I have questions or comments regarding the movie.

I have been to many a karaoke bar over the years, heard a version of a track, and wondered who made the track either because I never, under any circumstances want to hear that version again, or, perhaps I would like to purchase that track for myself. I am reasonably confident that if I missed the Trademark or other identifying info at the beginning, that I can find it at the end.

As it pertains to karaoke, if I saw the Sound Choice Trademark at the beginning of someone singing "The Eagles - Heartache Tonight" I might think to approach the KJ to strike up a conversation about how they were fortunate enough to be one of the few to have obtained a copy of the disc before it was recalled or perhaps ask how they had to pay for it on eBay or Craigslist. On the few occasions I have inquired about that specific scenario, I have usually been met with a confused look presumably because they don't even understand just how uncommon it is.

All because of a trademark....

-Chris

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-Chris

I wasn't assuming anything, I was simply restating what Smooth wrote for clarity. (and I do understand your position Smooth, I just wanted to make a point is all.) Since Smooth said "shifting" without referencing "to another disc" or "to a computer" it was you (Chip)that made an assumption that it would be to computer. A fairly reasonable assumption, but an assumption just the same.

-Chris

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-Chris

There are quite a few brands that do not put trademarks at the beginning or at the and of their karaoke tracks. (By the way those are called "producer screens" and "credit screens") All-Star is one of them, there were a few panorama records versions that did not contain trademarks, and that practice dates back to the beginning of karaoke. Just play the all hits version of "harmony" by Elton John and you'll see what I mean. So just because a track does not contain a trademark, doesn't necessarily mean that there is anything suspicious going on. Remember, many of those same Eagles tracks that you bring up do contain a trademark – and at the end of the song it says "used by permission." And we all know how suspicious that is. So just because the track may or may not have a trademark or may or may not say that it is used by permission, is not an automatic red flag.

Just as it has been stated on these forums that digitrax is now stripping the chart buster logo off of the CD+G tracks and adding their own, doesn't necessarily mean that those tracks have been licensed by the publisher to digitrax. They may or may not be transferable (which should keep me busy for a little while).