Karaoke Forums

That's what they said about the Segway.

And the Segway is still very popular for applications where it makes sense.
Much like this cloud conversation, the technology is excellent, it's the price that is too high. You would see a lot more Segues on the street if they were $600 instead of $6000.

Smooth,
There is the potential for venues to get into the business of karaoke, and, undoubtedly, some will try to circumvent hosts like us. I believe, as someone said earlier, once some of the inherent problems surface (pc crash, sound system problems, mics being destroyed, etc.), venues may not like it so well. Plus, trying to find and keep hosts on the cheap that are worth a rat's behind will get tiresome.
There is a multi-rigger here in Salem that hires his kj's at minimum wage, and most of the ones I have dealt with have zip for personality, and don't really care about the singers because they have no vested interest. They all aspire to have their own karaoke company, but don't have the funds to do it, and don't realize what it takes to keep a karaoke business running.
The other aspect, as far as venue owners are concerned, is that they have their hands full running a bar. The owners I work for don't have time to learn the business and sound equipment end of the karaoke business. Nor, do they really seem to have the desire. Most venue owners I have talked with in the past look at us as a necessary evil. They hate to pay me, but they sure like the money I generate for their business.
If the "self hosting venue" becomes vogue, it will fade after a while. Just my personal opinion.

As a consumer, do you sing the same songs every day? Or even every 3 days? And since it is very unlikely that your Internet would be down at the exact moment you do want to sing it, streaming would be just fine.

-Chris

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-Chris

Let me re-phrase that to "as the person buying the tracks--to host karaoke--"it could be an extra hassle to maintain a fluctuating library. And to pre-empt that all the songs would always be available--we don't have reliable streaming out here so we would have to "tether."

I realize that we already use cloud technology for GMail, etc and it has advantages, especially for a home user. But for running a show it isn't "there" yet at least for our area. Legal downloads would be more of a help to us than the cloud as proposed.

Thanks for the kind words.

Not all Cloud services require you to pay monthly for access. Some do, but not all.

Consider this....

You buy a Van Halen CD. You paid for it. You own it for evermore. You even back it up by burning it to another disc and play only from the backup. But somewhere down the line you lose or damage the back up. In a pinch you play from the original. You know you need to back it up again, but you either get sidetracked or other wise don't back it up immediately. The original somehow gets lost or damaged. Your only recourse is to pay for another original *IF* it can be found.

@smoothedge69 - With iTunes - You buy it, you download it to your iPod, and your iPod gets stolen. You buy another iPod, you download it again, free this time because they currently allow you to do so since you paid for it once. (iTunes is a cloud service by the way.) As long as their terms of service allow you to download an unlimited number of times in the event of loss of your iPod, you are golden. But they can change those terms of service any time they like. They could start limiting the number of downloads you can make, or simply convert to being a monthly access subscription at any time. (remember.....all iTunes music was DRM'd until 3 years ago. They could easily turn that back on).

-Chris

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-Chris

I think the objections are more toward the streaming than to the cloud in general. When Bazza buys his ITunes then he has the convenience of storage in the cloud plus access from anywhere. But he doesn't have to keep paying a monthly fee or logging in to "keep" his songs. But the karaoke cloud seems to be more of a subscription service where you pay but don't keep. It doesn't seem like a good deal at the moment and doesn't play to the hosts pride in their library which may be emotional but is a factor.

....I'm not completely sold on the cloud just yet but I do see my current media (cdg, sd card, mp3 discs and Chartbuster Drive) dropping in value as the days pass on. With the exception of tracks from that media that are no longer available, why would I not want to be apart of the cloud? Access to 60,000 karaoke tracks anytime/anywhere I want or need?

...But I do see a little different price structure/system that might work for everyone. Based upon usage, such as the current cell phone providers do.

I know @kjathena both fall into the "cheerleader" category, but I dont' agree with her assessment that the physical media will be worth more over time. My copyright argument was a very tired and not very thoughtful response. In reality it is just a matter of changing song preference and outdated music. If the value of the physical media were to go up because some of it were not available any longer then all of us that have piles of discs would be sitting on gold mines. eBay and Craigslist alone prove the value of the physical media is dropping steadily. I have a full Pioneer LD set and almost a full second set. I have paid less than $400 to acquire those. Hardly the thousands it cost back in the day.

SC8125 and the DK sets no longer command the same high price they did just two years ago (or even 6 months ago if you have been watching closely). Other music that is only on out-of-print discs is also being forgotten over time. I think the value is mostly due to collectibility right now, and that will go away as the ability to effectively play the material disappears (they stop manufacturing the players and the existing ones get trashed or fail). Other music that is only on out-of-print discs is also being forgotten over time.

-Chris

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-Chris

This may apply to the professional KJ but home users burning discs is still very common. The number of sales of karaoke CDG burning software applications attests to this.

While computer karaoke is certainly becoming the norm I have to wonder what the ratio of computer to disc users among KJs is at this point. In my area I would estimate disc users outnumber computer users about 2 to 1.

$200 a month is too high.

I have Virtual DJ. I pay 9.99 a month for unlimited downloads for songs. Now.. that said, the songs are stored in cache so online access is not required for play back. Second, they only play back through virtual DJ, and third, the license on the songs are renewed every 30 days. So, if you are a professional DJ like myself this is a great deal.

THIS is the product we need for karaoke. Not this streaming thing. I don't have internet access at every bar I play at.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!

Hello All, my first post on the forum but I needed to chime in. 3 items:

I'm not sure you've been watching, but Grooveshark is under the gun right now for their consumer side - because they are not paying publishers (a few publishers have pulled out already). So do you really think $9.99 a month will cover a commercial license? Not humanly possible, no way a commercial license could be that inexpensive.

Second, the Karaoke Cloud Pro service allows you to download (cache) the songs as well - you can be offline for a full 30 days before having to re-connect to verify your subscription. You can download the entire catalog to your local disc if you wish, and simply connect monthly to verify your subscription.

Third, the price points haven't yet been determined for the pro service. We've talked $99, we've talked $199. I'm not part of those discussions with the manufacturers, but I know this whole thing is still organic. Feedback is important, so this thread (and the others) is a great springboard for all involved.

I know the goal is to try to find the right mix for everyone - the right pricing, but also making sure the manufactures involved are generating revenue. As everyone knows, the industry has taken a big hit in recent years - change is needed or Karaoke may go the way of the caveman. Cloud computing has been around for decades, but is now at the forefront of digital media delivery. The "younger" generation (which subsequently is important to any business to succeed - you need to find NEW users, while still trying to satisfy the requirements of the wily vets) is already accepting of this technology, owning your own media isn't as important...

I remember a time. Only 10 years ago, where people said I would never DJ with a computer - computers crash! Things have changed just a tad. "Renting" commercial content will be as commonplace as subscribing to your cable package. Cliche, but it's the future and the future is now. It's just about getting it right for everyone, and everything is still on the table as far as pricing and functionality.

You guys are a really knowledgeable group so please keep the feedback flying. I won't be here often, but I enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks

Hey Ryan
...Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! I do have some questions to ask you. Will you answer PMs?...Thanks

I would most likely get out of the business after 20 years if I had to rely on streaming or downloading (most likely with a proprietory player?). And definitely wouldn't pay $200, $100 or even $50 per month for such a service and not have any product to show for it. If discs are on the way out, I guess my time has come as well and it's time to look for a regular job!

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I wonder how long it will be before someone figures out a way to hack that so the files can be kept without having to log in. You KNOW it will happen.

As for spending even $99 a month, that is a lot of money to spend, only to come away empty handed.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Thanks!

Per your questions:

Each karaoke software provider would implemented the API and encryption directly into their product. So yes, the files are of course highly protected, and will only work for playback in the software they are tethered to. So if MTU for instance has the cloud integrated, then the files tethered (cached) with their product will only work with their product. The files use very heavy encryption, even if someone figured out how to break in so to speak, the files would be pretty useless. Of course, anything's possible in this digital age, but we make it REALLY hard on them...

I see what you're saying about $99, but I don't see it as "empty handed", not if it's generating revenue for you. There are other pros here - like auto-updated catalog, perfect naming conventions, other publishers coming on board, etc. It's clear pricing is the hot button. I do like some of the suggestions I've seen, like the amount spent would be based on usage of the content that month. Not saying it will be so, but these are the types of counter options I'm sure all parties want to hear about.

I would prefer if someone had something to discuss to email me at rsherr AT PCDJ dot com Certainly available to chat anytime.

"discs" have been on the way out for some time in every music sector, they're simply glorified table coasters in my household

Thanks again!

I think it's ok for me to post this, this was the video I recorded for the summit event in reference to the Karaoke Cloud Pro service integrated with PCDJ Karaoki. You may want to scan in about 5 minutes, that's where I start talking more about the cloud specifically. Keep in mind this is a beta as well, all things shown are subject to change/adjustment. Maybe it will help clear up some of the questions many of you have:
http://youtu.be/7yxBpqnZPMQ?hd=1

This video will also be included in the full summit recording.

Thanks

So would this mean that a kj could not use their discs anymore - i'm sure that is not what it means, just checking.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You can still continue to use any media you own, including discs. Download sites will still be a viable solution as well.

The Cache option sounds good. The next thing is the software. I love compuhost, so would cloud work with my software?

Compuhost, and other applications like MTU hoster, and karma have been in development for years, constantly evolving through user generated feedback. If I have to use software developed by cloud, that basically puts us back to square one with hosting software features.

I have invested a ton of money in disks, KJ media pro, and Tricerasoft. I'm not willing to give all that up and start scratch on my library.

So:

- Cache the songs so they don't have to have an internet connection
- Allow it to integrate with my current software application
- Reach a price point that it makes sense from a business standpoint.

Might I suggest, rather than trying to figure out how many shows a KJ is doing... as this changes more frequently than the weather, how about offering gradient packages? Say, 20 downloads a month for $9.99, 50 Downloads for $25, and so forth. This way, each KJ could find a price point that makes sense for the business they are running. For example multi riggers would need a greater price point... say $100 or $200 a month depending on the number of rigs.

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Good music, good friends, howling good times!