Karaoke Forums

I agree I use MTU, so from what I understand is they would have to actually integrate their software to work with the Cloud as would Compuhost and the others. I don't care for (sorry Ryan) PCDJ personally so wouldn't want to be locked into a new program in order to use it.

I don't know if the gradient would work as you don't actually get a product, just the use of it. So how would that work in a situation where everything needs to be renewed each month?

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What would be the point to hacking it? All of the content is already available in the pirate world for those who are inclined to steal their music. Using hacked content would only make one a more visible pirate and much easier to build a case against because with this product they will know who their customers are and can easily identify those who are using the content without paying for it.

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Also the servers on the Cloud's end would have to be super computers if all kj's decide to utilize this, since they would all be accessing them heavily at night. What happens if the Clouds servers went off line for a couple hours during a show or days where nothing could be accessed. I know my own websites servers went out for 2 days, they were hacked & messed with.

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This was in response to karaoke koyote:

Thanks, but I think you missed the part where I said it's up to the various software developers to implement the service. I'm sure some of the major players will already be on board from day one. I know MTU suggested they are working on it already. So it's clear, I don't represent Digitrax or their partners, I am the GM at PCDJ.

You may not know but we've (PCDJ) been creating karaoke software since 2002 or so, with the first entry into the market being KJ VRM. We've released a few iterations since, with the most recent (although now almost 4 years on the market) being PCDJ Karaoki (you can view it and the feature list here: http://pcdj.com/index.php/karaoki/ ) . We also pride ourselves on keeping our collective ear to the ground, implementing user requests, providing they make sense, has been paramount to our success. I think you'll find our features comparable to others, but everyone has a different way to implement features - which is great for you guys, more options and more competition which drives better product. I always tell people to download all the demo's, do a side-by-side and find the product that meets your needs. But enough about us...

Digtrax isn't releasing their own software - they are simply hosting/developing the cloud. Although they have put together a sleek HTML5 based consumer website for streaming karaoke (not for pros and no caching). They designed a Karaoke Cloud Pro API so any karaoke software provider can use it to include the Cloud service in their product. Thus, if you're interested I would suggest contacting your software provider of choice and expressing your interest. I'm sure they are all already well aware of the availability of the Cloud.

Again, I think a usage type of option - per plays/downloads or the like - sounds like a good idea. I'm sure Digitrax will be eyeballing this forum for this type of feedback.

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I believe the way the cloud has been setup is that it can easily handle hundreds of thousands of users at once, bandwidth isn't going to be a problem.

Lonman, PCDJ Karaoki has come a long way in the past year. It's our most popular software right now, with wide distribution. But as I said, to each their own - options are great and the competition between ourselves and other karaoke software providers equates to better karaoke software products for you guys.

One more thing as per you post (I'm not sure it's been clear enough) - you can download the entire collection to your local drive and go offline - you will not need an active internet connection to use the Karaoke Cloud Pro service. I expect most subscribers to just download the entire catalog for the length of their subscription. You only have to connect to the internet to verify the subscription once a month.

The commercial license should be inexpensive because the publishers are already being paid for the public performance through ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.
Why should they be paid twice for the same performance?
If the publishers' fees are going to be paid through this cloud service, then the content should be playable everywhere without concern for paying the performance fees to ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC.
Right?

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Generating revenue, yes. But not building assets or equity in your company. You are talking about $99 a month or whatever. But when you leave the business what do you have?? Nothing. You have no discs, or files. You have just spent a ton of money on nothing. That is what I don't like about it. I like to get something tangible for my money. I would rather have a nice legal downloading system, where you can buy songs without having to worry about legal issues. I know there is still some question about services like Tricerasoft because they originate outside the U.S. I use them, and will continue to because I like the idea of buying what I need, rather than buying a ton of stuff I may never use. I had wanted to get in on the KJMPHD system, but of course that is up in the air with Chartbuster going under. I would rather buy what I need, when I need it than spend whatever a month and own none of it. Even at $99 a month, you are talking about $24,000 after 20 years, if the price never goes up. Now, after spending $24,000 you walk away from the business with no music. Some may want to sell their music, some may want to use it for their own personal use, some may want to pass it down to their kids. Spending $24,000 and getting nothing for it, to me, is just a total waste of money.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'm certainly not an authority on this subject, but if you're already in trouble (Grooveshark) for your service in general, than you certainly can't allow people to make money using it. They are not setup as a "promo service" for DJ's. Unless the service has been around awhile and they're grandfathered in, the publishers are not allowing their content into pools for pros they once were. They are on a mission to monetize everything (such as music videos - which were once for "promo")

As for your second item. The karaoke manufacturers pay the publishers for the content you get on disc, what the venue pays in fees to said companies is still required. Remember, for them to offer digital content like this via the cloud there are new licenses and so forth that must be paid/acquired. So it's an expensive endeavor for all the manufacturers to offer a digital professional subscription. I'm sure it will be some time before any of them seen ROI.

Waste of money would mean you've garnered nothing from it - IE never made a nickle at a gig. Regardless, you have valid points, and I'm sure many will agree with your statements. The KCP probably isn't a great fit for someone like yourself. Again, download sites and the like are not going anywhere, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that. You'll still have your usual online options - but physical discs on the other hand will be dead in the coming years, which I have no problem with. Simply put, you can use the cloud, or not.

So what you are saying is I only need to download (take the time) the entire collection once (and as any updates come along), they would be stored on my drive for the show computer and I would not have to do that anymore - just connect once a month to renew the subscription - correct? The content will remain useable for the 30 days until renewal.

Also - approx how many songs would we be talking and how much time with an avg internet connection would we be talking here to download an entire collection??


I think there should be lower price options for longer pay - say $100 per month, $85 for three months, $75 for 6 months, $50 per year. (all per month rates).

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One wonders if with the end of discs, which i am fine with, will that also bring an end to all the friggin' lawsuits that are plaguing the industry?

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smooth, then it is not for you. I know it's not for me. We're disc based and whether there is or isn't another disc made, it makes no difference to us.

Yes the steam engine is great but ox-teams are still used and can do things the steam engine can't. There's a time and place for everything. We work in a venue that has its own system and music and we still play there twice a week with our own gear and music.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Renting, leasing, licensing, or buying is not a determining factor of whether a product is a good product. The determining factor is value for the price.

Many people rent their homes rather than buying because it makes more sense for them financially. Many people rent their ticket from an airline rather than buying a plane, and when they arrive at their destination, they rent a car rather than buying one because it makes more sense. The choice of whether to rent or buy is generally a matter of whether the money could be better invested in something else. If you are looking at your karaoke collection as an investment that will reap great rewards in the future you will likely be dissappointed unless the reward you seek is the satisfaction of owning it like a knick knack on a shelf. If the reward you seek is monetary, you would be better off buying land.

In the case of the karaoke cloud, the price will determine whether it's a worthwhile purchase and the prices they have proposed so far don't compete with any of the alternatives. Those prices would compete however, if it is the only alternative to get out of a lawsuit.

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Yes, exactly. How many songs, that's still left to be determined. I believe they are trying to launch at around 60,000, but again I could be off. I know the speed with an average cable connection seems to be a little less than 10 seconds a track when downloading/tethering from the cloud in our software beta (I believe you can see this in video I posted a page back), which is pretty fast. 60,000 X 10 seconds - I'm sure you can get the math from there.


I think there will definitely be some discounts based on length of subscription, the options you suggested don't sound too shabby either.

Sorry Lonman, I was typing this and just noticed your entry. My prices were a lot higher than yours but could definitely be adjusted accordingly. Was just trying to make it fair for the manufacturers and KJ Operators.

... Otherwise, this is only an opinion. "Food For Thought"

....I agree about the pricing issue being a bit high but I do believe it will appeal to "The New Generation KJ" The ones just starting out who have no library or thosands of dollars for building a library. I also believe the price structure needs to vary based upon usage.
.....New Membership Fee 1st Year: Maybe $240.00? Renewable Yearly Fee Thereafter: $120.00?
.....Monthly Subscription Fee: $29.95 per month?
.....Usage Fee Per Track: (Typical 4-hour night a KJ will play 60 tracks) x .25 per play = $15.00 per night or (maybe X amount per hour for cloud usage).
.....OPTIONAL Usage Fee: for the KJ that will gigging more per week/per month:$160.00 per month UNLIMITED USAGE (the .25 cents per track or block price is waived and monthly Subscription would drop from $29.95 to $14.95). Naturally, option of changing plans from one to the other based on your usage would be available.

....New Rules For Commercial Venue, perhaps changing of the law/s or creating some type of licensing for Commercial Venue that wants to be able offer Karaoke by hiring a LEGALLY CERTIFIED KJ: A Commercial Venue's Fee would be $120.00-$200.00 per year. (This fee for the Venue is along the lines of Performance but only for Karaoke). Venue can only hire a Legally Certified KJ. Venue must notify Karaoke Cloud Company to Verify the KJ they're using. This keeps the Venue out of the legal worries and helps to eliminate those KJ's using Pirated Tracks and charging so little for shows.

....On a side note for those that want to keep their Libraries they've built over time, they can keep and still use but must go through an audit in order to be Certified and Eligible to work Commercially. This would eliminate a GREAT number of those KJ's that are operating off of PIRATED TRACKS (No Discs, no need for an audit. No audit, no certificate and no commercial gigs) which could allow us LEGAL KJ's to possible charge more. If the Certified KJ wants to work commercially, but doesn't want to use the Cloud, they would still be required to pay for an audit ($200.00?) to verify their library and receive a Certificate for Commercial Use. Perhaps a $9.95 fee per month for the Cloud and allows the Karaoke Cloud Company to keep a check on the KJ's Library.

...Finally, like it or not and this also applies to me, those Karaoke Discs that we now own, just continue to drop in value, with the exception of a few. But what new KJ is gonna want to pay, very much at all, for 1-disc or a whole library if they can "Pay As They Play" with access to a LEGAL Karaoke Library of possible 60,000 plus tracks and new updates for a yearly membership and usage fee? Plus, there's the possibility of charging more than the current rate for a show and no more hours spent ripping, no legal worries or audits. I don't know but I think we're about to see it happen in the near future. I could be wrong?

...All of the above is just an opinion. Just ideas being thrown out there. Believe me, I have a very nice collection (Karaoke & DJ Library) like many others. Have put a lot of money into that collection but I just don't see it holding it's value if the cloud catches on. Who's gonna want to buy it? Only issues I see is, the Karaoke Cloud Company could: 1) Go under, 2) Raise prices, 3) Have a library that drops songs after licensing expires....and whatever anyone else comes up with. I do think Ryan did say we didn't have to be online to use the library, maybe?

Or on top of the long term prices - make those the 'premium' subscription rates with all manus included. Because it would really suck if ALL kj's had the same offerings as far as music goes, this is what makes kj's unique with their selections. I take pride in looking for songs that other kj's don't have. Now everyone is going to have the same selection, there is no allure to a specific kj in the area of selection anymore.
There could be lower monthly pricing with lesser manus included (or small amount of songs - say 10,000 songs for the 'Basic' package) for $10-15 per month with new updates at an additional cost(no price breaks for long term payments), a more higher end subscription with 25,000 songs and more manus for maybe $35-50 per month - a little break for the 3,6,12 month plans but no lower than $30 per month for the 12 month plan and also an additional cost for new releases, then the premium subscription with all songs/manus with the prices I quoted earlier with new releases inclusive in the month.

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it can't be a core set, just additions. could you imagine for example trying to do a show in the southwest with no Garth Brooks?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Ok, now you'll have to compete on your skills and abilities as a host, and on price to the venue. Sounds like this makes the industry worse, not better, but it's coming like a freight train.

This is spot on.

Why would you "RENT" a seat in that cloud airplane?! You have nothing to show for it! !

Will the Cloud be able to distinguish what the host has bought and stored on the Cloud from what the host is accessing via subscription? If a song loses licensing will it disappear from the cloud all together and then the host would have to put it back on from their private collection?