Karaoke Forums

Are licensed in the UK through MCPS - a UK society. And it does even state in their terms (MCPS) that the license is covered 'worldwide' - EXCEPT US & Canada.

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The problem is the making of unauthorized copies (by, for example, ripping the tracks to a hard drive) that are marked with the SC trademarks and trade dress (including the lyric sweeps and other characteristics) and using those copies commercially.

If you are playing from an original CD+G disc, there are no trademark problems because you are using the original product, not a copy you made, and the original is correctly and truthfully marked with the trademarks and trade dress.

And what if I run a show using CD+G disc but not my original discs but my backup discs because I wish to keep my originals in a safe place... Is there anything wrong with wanting to protect my investment? Is this illegal???

Honestly, I never could understand the problem with converting an original CD+G disc of which you bought legally and than converting it to digital (mp3+g) so it can be played in a pc I mean you'll have the same graphic showing the SC logo (free publicity) as if you would be playing it on disc, right??? Is SC really suing people for doing this

Shouldn't SC be chasing the real pirates that downloaded their tracks illegally or bought a hard drive on eBay... I mean not suing it's own customers that bought their products and felt it was time to convert to digital... and btw, did SC customers ever charged them for that FREE publicity they get every time a song is played from a CD+G or via a PC??? You know, I would be thankful if I were SC and I would be chasing the real people that made me lose money and I would focus my energy on growing my business by offering my full catalogue to everyone that wishes to buy by track and I would consider offering the most popular tracks in the multitrack format like Karaoke-Version is doing. It's getting late, I think it's time for SC to move on and show the industry that they are not in this business for suing their own customers but to show that they are the leader in their category... Have you read all the comments about how good their competitors are, people will soon remember SC for their ability of suing people but not for the great tracks they once produced...

To get back to the OP Topic -

DigiTrax isn't exactly promoting itself very well. Instead of floating out the info they did at the karaoke summit and creating controversy (albeit only within our little world here at KS), they should be talking up the service and trying to build excitement. I just checked out the social media platforms they say they are part of -

Facebook - 56 "Likes". Not exactly drawing people in. Seems to be their primary presence. It is all outward bound though as they are not currently allowing anyone to comment on anything they post to their page. Nor will they let anyone post anything to their page. Not necessarily a bad thing. They are controlling their messaging prior to official launch. The only information they have posted related to what they are doing is the info from the Summit (read this as they still haven't told us anything). Everything else is seems to be music industry information of mediocre interest.

Twitter - 40 Followers. Very meager reach considering the audience. But Twitter is much more generational than Facebook which is still generational. I am going to bet that *most* (not all) of those reading this on the KS forums that are *also over 40*, don't have *personal* (you might and should have one for your karaoke business) Twitter accounts. All of their Tweets thus far mirror the postings made to their Facebook page. There is a bit of a disconnect in that the Tweets link directly to the news sources instead of linking back to Facebook and then to the news sources. There is nothing driving them back to their priomary portal at Facebook.

YouTube Channel - 4 Subscribers, 10 posted Videos (4 karaoke tracks, 4 karaoke summit excerpts, and 2 mystifying advertisements for other companies), 365 total video views. No solid info that we don't already know. The numbers reflect the relevance of what they have posted.

Wordpress - This is their blog portal. Last post - Jun 27 (a month ago). Lots of fluff. Links to memes, viral videos, music related stuff. The very first post to the blog is not about DigiTrax or KaraokeCloud or even really karaoke related. It is about a singing game app for mobile devices. Very Odd. There are a few posts from the summit (nothing new) and then back to fluff.

Even the "About" link on the blog is minimalistic -

"Everyone has those songs that they can’t stop themselves from singing along when they hear them. Karaokecloud.com is a way to live-stream those songs and others, while getting in touch with your inner-crooner.

This is a blog dedicated to all things karaoke and music."

I am truly stymied by their marketing department.

I don't entirely understand why they aren't being more open, transparent, and informative. They don't have any competitors and no one seems to have the resources or the dedication to replicate what they are doing to compete with them. In my opinion, they should be much more open with what they plan to do. They should be providing outbound communications about their plans and they should be providing more information about the feedback we have provided during the beta testing process.

Regarding the exisiting consumer service, there is nothing that really excites me about it. I would never use it because I rarely do karaoke at home. If I did though, it is brain dead simple to use. It does have a nice format, and it just simply works. But I also believe there are problems with the implementation.

1) Singers are limited to hearing the music play and then just singing over it. Pretty much what everyone has done since the invention of the radio minus the lead vocals. There is no vocal amplification or effects without investing in additional hardware and software.

2) The experience is very limited to a single person or a very small group. Unless you have a PC/Slate/Tablet/Phone connected to your TV, the experience doesn't lend itself well to groups. People have to crowd around a device to see lyrics.

3) Sound Quality - See above. Unless you connect your device to a higher quality sound system, the experience doesn't meet it's full potential.

I don't think I will be using the consumer version. I have a sound system, connected to my big screen, and a PC connected to that so I can play my existing KJ library when I want to. But I am a KJ and a computer geek. the everyday karaoke singer may find more value in it than I do.

As a KJ, I would the service in this fashion -

Singer at Show - "Hey, is there a way for me to hear the song before I go on stage to sing it?"
KJ - "Sure, go to KaraokeCloud.com and see if they have the track. Just keep in mind that their version might be a little different from what I have to play here and they may not have it at all."

There is one thing that is new on the KaraokeCloud Beta site after logging in -

"Karaoke Cloud is ad-supported and free, but you can remove the ads by subscribing to Karaoke Cloud Plus for one low monthly fee. Subscribers also get access to a larger library"

It will be interesting to see what "larger library" really means (current music? popular karaoke tracks? irrelevant fluff?)


-Chris

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-Chris

There is nothing wrong with wanting to protect your investment. There is a procedure you need to follow in order to do so, and it starts with notifying SC that you have conducted a media-shift and requesting an audit.



The problem with "converting" the original CD+G disc is that you are making an unauthorized copy, and that copy is marked with SC's trademarks and trade dress. SC has the right to control the use of its trademarks and trade dress in this manner. SC is suing KJs who make unauthorized copies of its products--but those suits can be resolved quickly and easily by submitting to an audit of your system to demonstrate 1:1 correspondence and that you are otherwise following SC's media-shifting policy.



It is suing the "real pirates," as you say. As has been explained many times, it is impossible to distinguish conclusively between a "real pirate" and someone who has merely performed an unauthorized media-shift. Both are liable for trademark infringement. The latter gets resolved quickly with proof of 1:1 correspondence.



No one is forcing you to use the product. We only ask that you either (a) use the product as provided or (b) follow the media-shifting policy.



We are chasing the real people who cost SC money.

The economics imposed on SC by the music publishers do not allow the full catalogue to be offered by track. I have no information on what arrangements, if any, Karaoke-Version makes to ensure that the publishers are satisfied and their tracks are fully licensed.



We tried your way for about 10 years after this became a problem. It didn't work and it nearly killed the company. If doing it this way offends your sensibilities, you are invited to discontinue your use of the product in protest. There are plenty of people who recognize the value of the product as it is and who are more than happy to abide by the rules for using it.

This is one of the most logical postings I have seen on this site since I have been here. The sad thing is that it will fall on deaf ears. Sound Choice doesn't care about these issues. They want total control over their product. They TOLERATE you shifting their material, AS LONG AS you jump through their hoops and pay their fees. That will never change. I suggest you look elsewhere for a company that will support what you want. Sound Choice isn't it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Perhaps a great way for a good-will resolution/option to all this is for SC to participate in Karaoke Cloud Pro. Are there any legal issues in this regars?

Harrington already stated that even on the off chance that SC participates in the Cloud, the lawsuits WILL continue. Until Kurt realizes that he will NEVER recoup all the money he lost, he will never give up this ridiculous endeavor. And Harrington will never give up HIS cash cow.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

how would SC participating in "the cloud" be any type of resolution? there would still be all the non- 1-1 hosts using unauthorized copies of the tracks. And if I am not misunderstanding something only currently licensed tracks could be used on the cloud so tracks would disappear if/when licensing was not renewed. On a physical media (IE...CDG's) the licensing does not expire on the media although there may be limits of the number of discs allowed to be produced....on a non-physical media such as the cloud limits would be extremely difficult if not impossible.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

As with every other endeavor by all the manus, there are aspects of how this will be accomplished that may or may not be illegal, or proper, or gray area, or whatever. Perhaps there are things about this "subscription service" that no one on this forum understands yet. Despite all that is going on, it is apparent that the "bob and weave" approach will continue...

Maybe if the cloud works out, the mfrs will get the incentive to keep up with paying for licensing to the publishers, rather than letting licenses go.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I know of 6 people who still get their paychecks every two weeks because of this "ridiculous endeavor." Maybe you'd rather they were unemployed? Would you like to come up and tell them to their faces that you think they should be out of jobs?



I make a fair return on the time and energy I've invested in this project. It is not a "cash cow." I'm not getting rich from it, and it's pretty offensive for you to imply that my motives are anything other than honorable.

What's to prevent SC (or any other manufacturer for that matter) to simply "drop the cloud" if it doesn't work the way they want?

Do you really want to be that much under the whim of someone else?

Wanna use the cloud to sing at home for the family dog? Go for it!

Would I trust it in a commercial environment? Not a chance.

You would need to specifically define "honorable."

I copied this from the RIAA site:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php? ... ne_the_law


Copying CDs
◦It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
◦It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.
◦Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:
◦The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
◦The copy is just for your personal use. It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.

◦The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
◦Remember, it’s never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.

According to the statement in bold, I don't see why I would need to pay someone for doing a copy (backup) or copying into my hard drive if the copy is for my own use

PS. Note that it says "copying CD's" so a CDG is a cd, right?

Tell those six employees to go do some work, rather than living off lawsuits. As for you............you're a lawyer, 'nuff said.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Kinda hate to admit it but Chip has a point in his last post.

It is my personal opinion that "the cloud" may be a good thing for home use and maybe even for people getting into the business (as far as having lots of tracks quickly and cheaply) with the ability to "tether" the library. I however will take a lot of convincing and be a very late adopter of this new technology. But then again I still use my old LD's (and a Dell Jukebox instead of a Ipod).

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Sound Choice doesn't go by those rules because their CD+gs aren't just music. You have to account for the logos and the word sweeps. THAT is what they are suing for. They call it Trademark infringement. If you copy one of their discs to a hard drive, you are copying their logo to that hard drive. They want control over that. You need to get their permission and jump through their hoops in order to do it. Copyright doesn't play into it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smoothedge..PLEASE horns in...don't bash on Harrington or he will just leave and the forums wont get any input. Not all lawyers are undesirable...just like not all KJ's are

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Honey, you NEED to get an iPod. It's whole other world.
I can't leave my house without my little clip on iPod shuffle. I only have a 1 gig, but I can carry around 16 hours of music in a little 1"x1" clip on module. AWESOME. The ONLY thing that would make it better would be wireless head phones.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE