Karaoke Forums

Chris,
The system you suggest has been tried before. The only way to be able to media-shift is with written permission from the manufacture's following the process they developed. If you investigate you will find that the discs(or files on HD) have to be used at 1 location at a time (if a server was in your garage that would be your 1 location). Some were arguing this was a legal solution years ago. I suspect that the wording may be clarified further since this "dead horse" has been brought back to life. Thinking creatively is a GREAT thing and we should ALL do more of it...re-thinking this logically is also a good thing.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
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"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

for me, $200.00 a month is waaaaaaayyyyy more than i am currently spending to buy new music for singers.
it is however a great way to saturate the market.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Like I said, this is going to be targeted at venues. They are the only ones that would pay $199 per month, eliminating the need to hire a karaoke host. Most bars don't care about quality. They want cheap entertainment. The cloud gives it to them.

The future of KJ's with the cloud service? The unemployment line.

Don't buy into it?

Did they offer a tiered pricing structure? NO! Did they offer individually priced downloads? NO! Do they care about you? NO! Did they offer a special rate allowing you to download updates only? NO!

Results of the cloud:

Piracy will increase tenfold.
KJ's will be out of a job.

Manufacturers will never clean up piracy. They don't want to. They just want us to pay for it. Sad.

Send a message people. Don't use or reccomend the cloud. It's time to fight back.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I am talking about loading the actual discs from a central location - not shifting them.

Also, if someone were to media shift, they could probably get by on a technicality since the "one system" would be at the central location and the display would be elsewhere. I am talking about having an onsite DJ basically phone in the request, and a remote DJ playing it.

-Chris

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-Chris

If those flyers are accurate, I don't see KJ's picking up on it, especially with annual commitments. Venue's may try it and some may even be happy with it. How many venues they get to buy into it depends greatly on the size of Digitrax marketing budget.

-Chris

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-Chris

If you keep track of what files are being used and/or requested and do NOT allow the same track to be requested by more than one "user" at a time - I don't see a problem with using a SINGLE library as a "distributed system."

Here's a hypothetical situation:

If I have DK 01-99 and 6 karaoke locations around the city, what do you believe the chances are that "Crazy" by Patsy Cline will be sung AT THE VERY SAME TIME at MORE than 1 location?

The chances of that happening are astronomical.

If I could have a "super-fast runner" that could get to all 6 locations in the blink of an eye and carried my karaoke library with them, I could run ALL the locations off ONE (1) "physical library" right?

So what's the difference if I use the "digital files on the plastic" (which is exactly what they are) or I use the same digital file off a hard drive?

In this case, the "runner" is the software and the centrally located library that is "delivering" the files as needed.

As long as I make sure that the same file is NOT available at more than 1 location at a time, there's NO difference... (and no "damages") And this could simply mean that a singer is "delayed" a couple minutes (run the next singer until the desired track is available)....

That kind of "metering software" is easy to generate and you could be a "multi-rigger" with a single library....

Just sayin'...

That would be easy enough to do. Like at my job, when we are processing the Batch Jobs, one job may have an EXCLUSIVE on a file (so that it can update it), and all the other jobs waiting in queue have a SHARE, so no other job can get to that specific file until the EXCLUSIVE is released.

Exactly.....

And software can easy meter and ensure that no track/disc is ever in use at the same time. There are ways around having multiple copies of discs to run concurrent shows.

-Chris

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-Chris

Oops......

I don't believe there is anything specifically illegal about the idea, but the manus will not give permission to do it. They actually forbid it in these audit/agreement situations, I do believe...

Only if you get an audit and sign it......

Actually, the Sound Choice audit paperwork does not expressly forbid doing what Chip and I have suggested. The audit certifies "a system". Not a venue or a location where that system will reside. A certified system can live anywhere. In fact, the very nature of being a mobile KJ suggests that the system will live in different locations depending on schedule or bookings. As long as the system is displaying content from a given disc to only one location at a time, then it should technically be compliant.

There is already an acceptable precedent for multiple displays at a bar including having the master display at the KJ stand and the singers display many feet away. There is no language that limits how many feet away you can be.

There is also an acceptable precedent for connecting the KJ system to remote displays using wired *and* unwired connectivity.

In the case of using media shifted content, using some simple tracking software, it would be very simple to prove to any court that no "disc" was being used simultaneously at multiple venues.

In the case of using the actual discs, the discs themselves would not allow simultaneous display of different tracks at multiple venues.

-Chris


-Chris

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-Chris

To further clarify, it would seem that once the shift is certified, the singular usage would seem to be able to be put on a track level, as opposed to the disc. The disc would become a non-factor once the shift occurs.

Even if the off chance that it happened that even TWO clubs needed that particular song at the same time - then you incorporate some kind of restriction where if it's playing in one place, the other clubs get an 'in use' message or something & move on to the next song for the moment.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I said that:

stop it guys....you are getting me all excited

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Wasn't one of the pirates being sued trying to use this system design as a defense last year? I seem to recall fake eBay auctions, etc in which this very system was described & claimed to already be in use.

Never heard the outcome.

It is my opinion, based on no specific case law, that media shifting is permitted under the fair use doctrine. See example#1 here: http://www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/unit0 ... 8_11.phtml

EDIT: While you are profiting, the bar pays royalties to the composer. While manu's might contend that they are damaged by the duplication by having their logo displayed, I'd argue that they are not at injured. /END EDIT

I do not know of any instance of this type of legal action having been pursued. Specifically, under the circumstances in which the KJ can prove that they already purchased the disk. Under fair use, if they own it, they can copy it.

And to Chris, you do not need to actually have someone switching disks. You just need someone to testify that they were switching disks on the evening in question.

This is all kind of moot though. Told ya'll I got something coming that'll simplify things for us. Stay tuned!

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

I don't recall any eBay auctions describing any system like this – but I don't go to eBay very often either.

And yes, there are KJ's using systems exactly like this – for their own use only. Obviously, this type of system would require that you test in advance, and make positively sure that you do have a reliable and fast Internet connection at the venue.

Also, keep in mind that for years the music collections owned by KJ's have always been referred to as a "library." And just like a library that holds a limited number of books, a software version of a library can maintain integrity in "checking in and checking out" songs that are used at a venue. Obviously, you cannot check out a book in a library that is currently already out, unless there is a second copy. The same would be true with song files: you cannot request a song at location "b" if location "a" already has that file in use and there is no original secondary copy.

I am in a training class this week and mentioned this whole concept to a fellow geek and karaoke enthusiast. We are going to begin planning next week.

The *only* blocking factor we see with this is the level of connectivity between the karaoke rig and the monitors/sound systems at the remote locations.

I have reliable 4G coverage in my area but even that can be impacted by the building and everyday Internet congestion. For locations with wired Internet access, this is not much of an issue. I have wired access at my two primary venues now so they will work great for testing.

-Chris

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-Chris