Karaoke Forums

I have been visiting some shows lately in preparation for hosting my own and it really bugs me that most hosts include themselves in the rotation. I don't go to Karaoke to listen to the host sing, I go to sing myself. And they give preference to their friends and family so the host and their cronies hog the show. I will certainly not be doing this. I will not sing at all and I will be keeping a strict rotation. I was just at a show and sang once in two hours and I just left. I got tired of waiting to sing again. I've mentioned it to a couple of hosts and they don't get it at all, they want to sing and they don't give a hoot. To me it's about the customers, it's not about me. If I want to sing I'll get there 20 minutes early and sing before the show starts. Rant off.

I'm bugged by it too.
But consider this; As a host, if you put yourself into the rotation on the job, you can then tell all of your friends you are a "professional singer".

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KNOW THYSELF

Traveling across the country from one end to the other and from one end of Canada to the other we have seen everything from KJ's that are great and treat everyone equal and makes sure that everyone else sings before themselves.
Then we have seen "KJ's" that scream out "I don't f**king care! It's my birthday and I will do what the f**k I want" Or something to that effect.
Then it's been where someone is in the rotation and then they also sing in duets and then single again cause well they got requested to sing a song and then in a duet with the KJ before someone else gets to sing.
Then we have seen shows where you have at least 7 people lined up to sing (you can see the slips) and they play 5 reg songs and then 2 or 3 karaoke then 5 reg songs then 2 or 3 karaoke.

And with all of them they think it's how it's run cause that's how they were taught/started running. Or they just don't care cause they are friends with the bartender and can't lose the show or ......
you get the idea.

Oh did I mention that out of all the show's we've been to over the last 8 yrs traveling around that NONE have been legal. Some had no clue but most did not care at all about any sort of lawsuits.

I sing at my shows. I go through the rotation, then sing, go through the rotation then sing, unless it is REALLY busy. I get requested to do songs, whether I am just hanging out or if I am working. I also play filler music, and if I have booty shakers I will play three or four booty songs about halfway through the night. Hey, they request it. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do things, for the most part. It depends on the crowd. I do what they want. Some nights we have all singers. Some nights we don't.

Obviously, yelling out that you don't care is messed up, but a host singing has NEVER bothered me. Just about every show I have ever gone to the host sings a few songs during the night. The only shows I have gone to without a singing host are the few where the host couldn't sing.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I start the show..and add myself to the rotation until I start getting busy..although Im getting paid Im there to have a good time also and when the DJ is having fun it makes other want to get involved

The ONLY thing that really bothers me is a host that gets plastered. I used to go to a show, (as a matter of fact it's the one I took over back in 2004), where the host would get Teee-Rashed. Halfway through the show, he and his friends would go out and smoke a joint. By the end of the night he was incoherent. I drink a few beers when I work, but I never get drunk. I just stay loose and relaxed. I know I would get too confused if I got drunk, especially if it were a busy night. BTW, I pay for my beers. No freebies where I do my fill in shows.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I sing the first song (unless it is a private party and then the choice goes to the customer).

I also include myself in the rotation. I don't apologize for it. I average 5 karaoke shows a week. I don't get to go to other karaoke shows but maybe once or twice a year any more. I am fair about my rotation and I use my place in the list to help determine when new singers get to sing. I will also give up my spot when it gets busy.

Why does it bug you that the host is in the rotation? Most hosts that I know got into karaoke because they started by singing at karaoke shows. It is very much the same as if one more stranger had signed up.

The advantage is, a host can influence the show in subtle ways with discerning song choices. The host can also use their time on the stage before the song is cued to inform the audience, acknowledge the staff, the regulars and any brides, birthdays, other venue events etc... without having a singer standing there waiting.

I could understand if the host played favorites. I don't. My reputation is my rotation. Once your name is in my queue, it doesn't move unless someone leaves or you trade places with another singer by consent. That goes for my name as well as any friends, colleagues, staff etc.

Honestly, you go to sing yourself, how'd you feel if the other audience members decided that they weren't there to hear you sing, they are only there for themselves? Why single out the host?

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Never the same show twice!

I sing at the beginning of rotation. I take myself off rotation when the number of singers reaches 12. I will sing duet with someone if requested, I will sing again at the start of the rotation if less than 12.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

When I ran I show I would always sing until I got about 6 or 7 singers, then I would drop out. If you don't have a lot of singers, a person can't even really have a conversation or enjoy their drink before it's their turn again.


then there were the times where people actually ASKED me to sing something, or to do a duet with them.. What am I supposed to say? I did what the crowd wanted in general.

There is nothing wrong with a host singing, as long as they are fair about it and treat everyone the same.

I have been to shows where the host would sing more than the people in the rotation.. Now THAT I don't agree with and think is wrong

just my two cents

-James

If you're a host and you're in the rotation, it's for one reason, YOU want to sing. It has nothing to do with the customers wanting you to sing, it has nothing to do with anything else, it's because you want to sing, period. It's not to enhance the show, it's not because the customers love your voice, it's not because you need to tweak the song selection. Be honest, it's strictly ego, nothing else. You can do whatever you want, it's your show and you can justify and rationalize it any way you want. In my book, the host should RARELY if ever sing during the show when there are people there who came to sing and who want to sing - even if they have to get up every 15 minutes. If they don't want to sing that often they'll let you know. If you just don't have any singers or there are only 3 people in the rotation, then the bar and the show has a problem and if that keeps up you won't be there for very long.

Starting each show with the first song is another story entirely and it can even be done by starting 5 minutes early, but including yourself in the rotation is wrong in my eyes. Like I said in my first post, I've talked to other hosts and they don't get it - that's my opinion - just like the posts above. You do whatever you want, it's your show. I was ranting as a customer going to several shows and observing how people run their shows.

Playing too much music between singers is not a good thing either if it's a Karaoke show IMO. It drastically reduces the number of singers per hour. They did that last night-too much for my liking as someone who came there to sing. Playing filler between singers while the next singer gets up in place and ready - so there is no dead air - that's a good thing IMO, AND, from time to time playing a song all the way through or even a second song like the Cupid Shuffle because people are really getting into it is good, people get up and dance and have a good time.

There's a fine balance and everyone has their formula-some of the formulas out there I don't like, but it's just my personal opinion. If what you're doing works for you, then of course keep doing it. But sometimes you think what you're doing is great, but you may be the only one who thinks so until you finally lose the gig and scratch your head trying to figure out why you lost the gig. Most times they won't tell you.

I have no problem singing a request (at the end of a round) or singing a duet if someone asks, but after 5 singers, I drop out regardless. It's not about me as a host to sing (IMO), it's abut those who come in to sing that should be highlighted.
I know some hosts personally that got into hosting because they feel they can sing whenever they want - that is not what it's about to me. I got into hosting to do a show like one i'd like to see as a singer - and that does not include the host singing alot.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

What are you, the Karaoke Ethics department?? IMHO your opinion means very little. Everyone's show is different. Everyone's crowds are different. For example, in Venice, Florida the crowd shifts, weekly. Some nights there are tons of singers. There are other nights there are tons of dancers. Then there are other night that have barely any singers, but a bunch of people who want to hear mostly Metal. Because the singer count is low, on some nights my buddy and I have to adapt to a different mode. In this area there just aren't a ton of people. Many have moved away because of the economy. At this time of the year all the snow birds are gone. So, you have a popular band down the road at a different bar, guess where everyone is going. If there is a carnival in town, like the Shark Tooth Festival, in April, guess where everyone goes. We also have Siesta Key, not too far away. That is a big draw for pub crawls. Then there are other nights where we are wall to wall. We have to adapt to each night as it happens. Some nights we play almost all regular music, some nights it's all karaoke, and some nights it's a mix of both. Some nights I sing quite a bit, some nights I don't sing at all. You can't generalize and demonize all those hosts who don't believe as you do. You don't know what everyone's situation is.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I don't care what your opinion of me is, I don't sing as a host if it's not required (which is a good thing according to singers that come in). I'm not there to sing, i'm there to 'host' others that want to sing.
I'll sing when asked, that's it. And then only if time permits - provided it's only me, if it's a duet, i'll sing with the person asking if it's their time slot. Once again, I try to provide a show that i'd like to see if I was going out to one.
Again, I know several people that got into hosting because they thought they would be able to sing whenever they wanted - many of them are no longer in business or have changed their stance because they realized it didn't work that way.
I run a strict karaoke show - people come in because they know that there won't be any dj music playing. You stay with a strict regiment and they will come.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No Lonman, I think he was calling ME the Karaoke ethics police. It's not about ethics and if he read carefully what I said, I said it was MY personal opinion-he just doesn't like it.

smooth likes to sing in the rotation and that's all there is to it. Like I said, people will rationalized and justify why they as a host should sing. Whatever. They're doing what THEY want, not what the customers who came there to sing want. They will have what they have and they'll get what they get. Hosts singing regularly instead of customers isn't a good long term strategy IMO.

I drop out if I have seven singers or more, sometimes sooner if I can see the nights about to become manic, I hate singing when it's busy... I much rather be calling others up. My biggest problem is the high volume of people who want to sing duets with me (especially as I have a strict one song per round policy) or want me to assist them if they get stuck.

Assistance is fine, I can more or less fade into the background, but at certain shows the volume of duets I get asked for can mean I sing more than anyone else in the night I've tried encouraging the singers to partner up with someone else or nudging them in the direction of solo performance to very little avail - I'm a safe bet as a singing partner, I'm always there and I know the other part to the song they want to do.

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

If it does get busy I stop singing. I think I mentioned that earlier in this thread. I always sing last in the rotation. You keep saying that a KJ won't last long in the business if he sings. That is flat out BULL!! I know quite a few people that stay in the rotation at their shows and have been at the same places for YEARS. Two of them are going on two DECADES at the same place, up in NY. I don't know what kind of people go to your shows that would begrudge the host singing a couple songs, but they aren't the kind of people I would want at my show. Stogie, not to be too harsh, but you sound like one of those PiTA karaoke Prima Donas. I have known people like that, and they tend to be much more annoying that a host that sings too much.

No Lonnie, the ethics thing wasn't directed at you. You just got in before I finished posting.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smooth, it sounds like your show isn't strictly a Karaoke show, it sounds like a hybrid mix of general entertainment tailored to the crowd you get on any particular night. It sounds like you handle it well and that the people get entertained. BUT, for me to go to a Karaoke show and expect to be able to sing more than once in two hours and see the host and her son sing multiple times irks me. If that's being a primadonna then I'm a primadonna. I don't go to bars to drink, I go specifically to bars that offer Karaoke because I want to drink beer and sing and socialize. If there was no Karaoke I wouldn't be there-at all. I can drink beer at home and not worry about getting pulled over by the popos. I rarely drink at home though.

Once in a great while I go to a bar that has a live band. If the band plays for 45 minutes and takes a 20-30 minute break, that irks me too. Are you telling me that it's so taxing and such an overwhelming effort to play for longer than 45 minutes? That's BS. That's being primadonnas and lazy. But what do you expect when each band member is only making $50, $75, at most $100 a night? Not very motivating pay wise. They're not making really anything to speak of so why put out the effort?

will usually sing the first song just to get the sound levels right and make sure that all of the equipment is functioning properly. Other than that, I really don't need to sing the rest of the night.

I have the same opinion of a host singing as I do of a patron who is not purchasing anything; any song that is sung by a person in a club that is not purchasing products, is a loser for the club. I will also explain it to a patron who is not purchasing anything the same way.

Let's say for example, your show lasts 4 hours. And your rate of pay for that four hours is $150. Let's also say that during that time period, you're able to play 50 songs. that means that for every song that is sung, it is costing the bar approximately 3 dollars. Whether that singer is a host, a patron, a waitress, the owner, or child. If the patron is purchasing nothing, and sings three times, that costs the bar nine dollars with no hope of recovery. If the host sings three times during the evening, the host will earn nine dollars, it will still cost the bar nine dollars – with no hope of recovery. I don't have a problem with a host singing in order to kick-start the entertainment for the evening, or to speed things up or change the pace if you're stuck in Ballad Hell. But I don't believe it is fair for a host to simply "become part of the rotation" with the rest of the patrons.

I have always believed that a host's job is to "orchestrate the party" and not necessarily "become part of the party."

These days every single show is different and it depends on how the night is going. Sometimes I might start a rotation, sometimes I might go last. It isn't much different after the first rotation and really depends on if there are a bunch of singers ready to go or not. I rarely totally run it these days anyway. I have several people who I've trained and they do most of the queuing and mixing. If they do everything right, I don't have to be technically involved at all. If my guy\girl isn't queuing or mixing right, I get involved and, trust me, they don't want me involved. I can pretty much keep the rotation in my head most nights and I can tell if they skipped someone or they aren't checking the mix. Let's call it hands off quality control. Anyway, I mostly talk to the patrons, get people to sing that might not, help people pick out songs, cheer lead, enjoy performances, help keep the crowd into the current performance and make people feel good about what they just did. Trust me, if a KJ is doing those things, patrons know the show is about them and they could not care less if the KJ is in the rotation or not. And I completely disagree with the stance that a KJ in the rotation is about ego. Can it be?; sure. But done with the proper perspective, singing is about expression. It's an outlet. For me its a passion. Karaoke is NOT American Idol and it's kinda stupid to "ego" as if it is. It isn't uncommon for me to go home after work and sing everything under the sun (including crap I have zero business doing) by myself and to myself for two or more hours.

The regular patrons love for me to be in the rotation and they know I love to hear them. They are the ones that request songs for me and it isn't uncommon for a few to go straight to my guy\girl and put songs in without even asking me. Heck, the bar owner would love to do full Beatles sets or songs from bread with me if I would do it and he usually only wants to sing with me. It isn't because I am good; it's because I have a passion that is contagious. I've gone in on week nights just to do a few sets with him and some of the regulars where it isn't a show and we just jam. No rotation, no structure, no "rules", just jam. We've had nights where the people from the bar filter over to the tables and the tables end up full because having that much fun is fun to watch. It's on a few of those nights, bar flies have sung for the first time and were converted. They would have NEVER sung otherwise.

There isn't any one right way or wrong way, but there are perceptions of right ways and wrong ways. My advice would be to leave those perceptions at home and give a show a chance before condemning a KJ for singing.

Maybe not YOUR customers. My customers ask me to sing all the time...really.

I sing the first song as a sound check, then sing in rotation if the crowd is very light (5 or less singers) usually on the first 30-45 minutes. Once things get busy I drop out unless asked to sing a duet with someone.