Karaoke Forums

That sounds fair to me--mainly because the rotation itself sounds unfair. Anyone--host or otherwise--who is shown favoritism sours the whole experience for some.

As for the host singing, as a singer? I don't mind it even slightly. It's just another person in the rotation, as far as I'm concerned, especially on nights with fewer singers.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

Stogie...

Your accusations are insulting. Your generalizations are incorrect. If a Host/KJ can't fill a venue, it has nothing to do with whether or not they sing.

I would have to agree with those who suspect you are a difficult karaoke customer. Doesn't matter to me. You'd still be treated with respect and your place in my rotation would be secure. You'd never be skipped at my show, unless you weren't there when your name was called. That would be regardless of your singing ability (or lack thereof), your song choice (and my opinion of it), your bar patronage (as long as you stayed on the premises), or your self-centered attitude. - - it is not serious. There is no ticket or cover charge for my shows, so it is always worth the price of admission. In fact, you get your beverages cheaper because I am there. Lighten up, as long as no one plays fast & loose with the rotation, you are not being harmed in any way.

The cost per song formula that was offered in a subsequent post is ridiculous.

I work on a flat fee or a percentage of sales, whichever is greater. Does that mean when I pull $400 for a Friday night that every song cost the bar $8? The cost of beverages is fixed for the venue for the most part.

How do you quantify that when I sing a new release or an obscure artist that inspires someone to find a new song or give karaoke a try for the first time? These actions, performed by the host, can actually increase sales and customer loyalty. My experience has taught me what you couldn't possibly understand without developing a following and hosting in the same venue(s) week after week, year after year. A Host/KJ that is boring, disaffected, judgmental and dull will lose out to one that isn't. Your attitude suggests to me that maybe you should go the automation route when/if you obtain your own gigs. Be a doorman and crowd control and let the machine host.

A Host/KJ with a personality, style, integrity and a good singing voice that participates is a winner.

Someone just posted "It's just another person in the rotation." I agree completely. No big deal.

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Never the same show twice!

It really doesn't matter whether it's, (a) Flat Fee or (b) Percentage of sales, the math still works out the same.

Whether you sing or a patron sings, the cost-per-song to the bar is the same. If the patron isn't spending - or you get your drinks free - it is a liability and not an asset. It becomes an asset when you have more patrons spending at a faster pace than singing or more patrons spending period. (the patrons that don't sing, but come only to watch -and spend- are definitely the best assets.)

On the "entertainment value" side of this equation, it may be well worth your time to sing - to change the pace or do what you can to involve patrons to have them stay longer because it's the cost of doing business at that point.

It's like a casino: The longer you can get paying customers to stay, the more money you make. If it takes you having to sing to do it, then fine.

You get paid $400 for a Friday night Karaoke show? I find that hard to believe, but whatever. Around here $200 is the absolute top end for a show unless it's a one night show in a retirement community which can bring between $200 and $300. I've never heard of anyone getting more than $200 per night for Karaoke in this area in the recent past. I know some people are working for $75-$100 and some get $125-$150 and that's pretty much the norm for pricing here. A very few get more than $150 a night.

You can be insulted or just take my critiques of shows that I've been to as my personal observations whether you agree with them or not. I have gone as a customer to sing and drink a few beers.

It's funny that you say that I must be a difficult or problem customer. I never say anything the the host or complain, I just don't come back. If I go to a restaurant or other business and the service is poor or the food is bad or other factors aren't to my liking I rarely say anything, I just stop going there.

Every time the KJ sings in the rotation it takes a turn away from a customer, that's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. Apparently lots of people don't agree, it makes no difference. They are going to do things their way and I'm going to do things my way that I think will work well.

I don't get free drinks or even discounts. I don't take tips. On the nights one of the people run the tech side, they do not get free drinks or tips. If I or someone helping me skipps someone then I either offer to buy them a drink if its a guy or a round if its a couple. I pay for that out of my own pocket. I provide a service while also being a customer at the same time. Many times I can be one of the bars best customers and that's before the value added me and my service bring.

There are a lot of people that come if I am there and don't if I am not. Two young couples came in last weekend and sat in a booth. They had fun listening but had never done karaoke before. Got them a book and none of them could find anything to bust the bubble with. I made them a deal that I would buy them a round if they did love shack. SURE! Started rough but they really got the hang of it and stayed and sang the rest of the night. They came up and gave me a group hug before they left and wanted to know how to make sure I would be there. Ching... four more in..

And my bill for the night ended up being $40 bucks and I usually give the bar keeps $15-$25 depending on how THEY did as long as they were on. (Think about it, KJs, who can REALLY ruin a night?)

KJs can be customers too...

My buddy get $150 for a week night and $250 on Saturdays.

As for Chips breakdown of drink sales to songs ratio, I am paying my dues then. I usually get to sing three songs, and usually drink three bears when I work. So actually, if it costs $3 a song, the bar is getting the better part of the deal from me since they charge $4.25 for my beer. I drink Becks Dark when I'm there.

I have had ONE problem with a KJ singing and ONLY one, in 18 years of singing karaoke. The host that I took over for, back in late'04 used to bring his wife. They kind of ran it together. He would announce the singers and run the equipment, and she would make bar announcements and try to pump up the crowd. Well, every time a not so good singer would go up, she would jump on a mic and sing with them to try to cover them up. THAT I found repulsive!! She wouldn't ask, she would just jump in. They have been out of karaoke for quite a while now, but still show up at shows, from time to time. If I am running the show and she shows up, if she jumps on a mic while someone else is singing I cut the mic.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

That was similar to my former boss. Except it wasn't the not so good singers, she would sing right after a 'good' singer - she was an exceptional singer herself and didn't mind breaking into the rotation at any given time to highlight her talent. She would also often jump in on the 2nd mic & do harmonies without asking. I hated watching that as a singer and as her employee watching the people in the audience cringe when it happened. I learned ALOT of what NOT to do from her - although she did have good points as well.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

At both venues where I host, we average around 30 and 35 singers respectively.

There's not a hope-in-hell that we'd ever make it through the rotation 3 times... and sometimes I volunteer to stay overtime just to get through twice.

So, to insert myself into the rotation isn't going to make a big difference... Having said that, I always make sure my name is the last one on the board. (I use a white board & erasable marker to show the rotation.)

Except for the odd requested duet, It's a rare night when I get to sing more than one song...

I too have been to shows where the host wants to be the singing star... and others where the host chooses to ignore the rotation... Neither tend to last very long.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

Jumping in by ANYONE uninvited (especially a KJ) is a complete and total no no. All mics are off except the ones needed at the start of the song.

As I've advocated a KJ singing; every night is different and has to be evaluated on it's own situation. If a party comes in that doesn't know me and the rotation is slammed, they aren't going to give one care in the world to hearing me sing. If it's a normal night with my "homies" they would be pissed if I didn't.

You might be surprised at those that do care. If a rotation is slammed, you are now taking one spot away from an actual customer that may become a regular. Could mean the difference of that party returning or going to another show the next time.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I didn't explain myself well. On those night, I don't sing. This IS a night where the KJ is just taking up valuable song time.

Gotcha!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Wow, this is a very busy thread. Goes to show that us kj’s are truly passionate about rotation. Different strokes for different folks.

I would never insert myself into the rotation to sing, even requested. I will sing that requested song at the start of the round (only if less than 12 singers) but never within or into the rotation. And in most cases, I only get to sing once, anyway. at first rotation when singers count is only 7 or 8. Second rotation the count is around 18, third - 25 and so forth. Last round, I will not sing even if less than 12, or 10, or 8. I'd rather give that one spot to another singer.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

Does being in business 21 years, working 6 nights a week, constitute long term strategy?

Like others, my partner sings at the top of the rotation and will do so until there is 10+ singers in the rotation. If fact he's had to tell singers he won't sing more (unless requested for a duet), even if they want to hear him.

Now a host who sings more than once in a rotation and playing favourites is wrong but again that is the hosts decision. Whether it works or not time will only tell.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

THAT is a bull's eye there. A KJ that isn't passionate about the rotation won't be around long at all. We've probably all seen the guy that doesn't sing one song, yet wastes enough time for six or more songs by not knowing who is singing next, not knowing what the next person is singing or pulling up the wrong song. Those are things that pizz me off no matter how many are in the rotation.

You suspect I am being dishonest? Why? Because your extensive hosting experience has taught you that there is some arbitrary limit on what a successful Host/KJ can earn?

Don't make this personal with me, you posted a "rant". I have responded with respect and I have not impugned your honesty in any way.



Around here the absolute bottom end for a show is $200 a night for weekly shows. One night, or one-off shows go for about $100 per hour of show-time. The last one I did paid a surcharge on top of that because I had to drive up and down Aspen's ski mountain.



It is not your "critiques of shows" that I find insulting. It is your accusation of egotism as the only factor in a Host/KJ singing. I also find your expression to be utterly self-centered and close-minded. Your tone is judgmental and rude. You certainly aren't going to listen to anyone who has experience or success in this field tell you that there is another perspective.



How's that workin' for ya? BTW - I didn't say that. I said that I would agree with those who did. By never saying anything or complaining you are rendering yourself inconsequential at best. I, on the other hand, will always say something about poor goods or services. I have learned that the result is that I get satisfaction and the provider of goods or services gets feedback and/or the opportunity to improve upon their product.



I can honestly respect that you believe that will work well. I'd respectfully ask you to consider how you are going to express your personality and differentiate yourself from your competition. Are you an entertainer? Are you a button pusher? Are you going to engage your audience and create a lively atmosphere or are you going to create the "Shprokkets" of karaoke?

Now izz dee time in dee show venn vee zingz. Now izz dee time in dee show venn vee danz. Now izz dee time in dee show venn vee klapz. Next zinger izz now.

Get a machine and sit nearby with a tazer for anyone who takes a turn away from a customer.

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Never the same show twice!

Pretty simple to me......if you don't like how a kj runs his show..........don't go.......

ps......it's right up there with....."when thunder roars, go indoors"
don't like the show, then don't go.......easy to remember, saves a lotta arguments....

I want to move there. Here you're lucky to find a club willing to pay $100 for any night. $150 on avg if you are really good. I have heard of some lucky kj's that get a little more in some clubs, but it's rare.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I like the cost per song concept, but by factoring it on gross pay basically says the KJ is nothing more than a song waitress. In most cases around my area that would be true. I know a lot of KJs that aren't worth anymore than the songs they play. But I like to think that most of us on this forum have more to offer for the money than simply serving up songs. I do like to analyze things and break them down that way, I just think you need to factor in the other values to the venue in addition to the songs or you are selling yourself short.

As for singing hosts, that's also a regional thing.
The host in a tourist town may need to sing more often, or at least can get away with it because there are fewer regulars to be concerned over.
The host in a small town will more likely be part of the regular crowd anyway and may sing with them as part of the comradery.
The host who caters to the diva crowd however, doesn't belong in the rotation at all.
So, it's really going to be different depending on a variety of factors. You'll know you are doing it right if you have a happy crowd, a happy venue, and a recurring gig.

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KNOW THYSELF

Lonman, you need to move to Aspen.