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Well I got some confirmation on what's happening at this gig from a few of my former regulars who came out to a different gig. They were very open and shared with me why they stopped going to that venue. Number one on their list was the drink prices and number two was the turnover in bar staff (which they had some theories on the cause that related to the owner's personality if you catch my drift). They were very clear with me that it's not a problem with me (which I was worried about) and that they like coming to my gigs.

They also brought up an interesting point that I feared might be related to the problem, and that is the involvement of the crowd. The way the bar is setup, many of the people are 150-200 feet from the stage. It's a long narrow building and the pool tables are at one end while I'm at the other. What happens is that with as far away as these people are, it's always a challenge to get people engaged in what's going on. Especially since at that distance, volume becomes a real issue. I can hit the gas so that I can project that long throw to the far end of the bar, but then I'm pretty much blowing the faces off the people that are sitting at the tables in front of the stage (I guess what I need are some delays half way down the bar ) As a result, it's not the type of party atmosphere that I get at my other gigs. They pointed this out to me as another reason why they've stopped coming.

So I've got a dilemma on my hands here. I have two problems that I really can't fix. I can't change the design of the bar and there isn't an opportunity for me to put Karaoke somewhere else in the bar. Second, I've got a bar owner who's doing all the things one would do if they intentionally wanted to kill Karaoke. Now I can approach them and let them know my thoughts on it, but ultimately, I'm not very hopeful that much will change. My fear now is that this gig is on its last legs.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Tony

It seems you have a reason to be concerned, I would have a sit down with the manager/owner and find out what's going on in their mind. What they want for the venue and from you concerning KARAOKE. I know with your expertise in the audio end of the business if you felt the owners are backing Karaoke Night 110% you will find a way to get sound at the other end of the venue.

Bar Staff on the other hand is something you can't control .. new bartenders and staff always bring in their own type of crowd that singers will have to co-exist with.

Good luck Man

Dr. FRed said: "Also without a crowd it is hard to build a crowd, showing up and being one of only 2-3 singers at a karaoke show is not for everyone."

Thats one kind of situation I HATE to walk in on and am SURELY not comfortable in. If there's not already SOME KIND OF CROWD for Karoake I most likely will come in and scope the place and head right back out.

Being the only one in an empty room is NO FUN! Gotta have a CROWD to sing to and for the PARTY ATMOSPEHRE. Otherwise its like walking into a MAUSOLEUM!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

What's going on in their mind? Making more money! They demonstrated that by raising drink prices. Karaoke rarely flourishes in bars that don't have cheap cheap drinks. Perhaps they don't think that karaoke attracts the kind of crowd that they're trying to attract and they're purposely trying to "kill" the show.

Yes, sit down with the manager to show him the new karaoke banner you bought to hang outside on your show nights. Show him the new posters and table tents you designed by which they can promote the show to existing customers. Show him the Craigslist ad you put together to hype the show.

Maybe then you can get an honest answer about WHY they don't want to promote you. Approach it in a "team" way: "Mr. Manager, I know we both want to get as many people through the door as possible. If people don't know that karaoke is happening here, you're not going to reach everyone who would come here especially for that attraction. I'm happy to be your promotional partner in getting back our big crowds, but I'll need your support. Is that something you're interested in?"

Then shut up and let him talk.

Again, he might feel that karaoke is no longer part of the "image" he wants to project or he's trying to make over the bar into something more upscale or attract a different crowd. He might well have the courage to tell you that he's been thinking of eliminating karaoke altogether.

You must have a dialogue with your owner, but don't go to him with questions. Go to him with solutions. Good luck!

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[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Well it has finally come to pass the show is officially dead. Had another talk with the owner today and we agreed to cancel the remaining shows for December. They still want to revisit the idea of maybe less frequent shows come January but we'll see. I'm not holding my breath and honestly if they don't agree to market the show then I will not be returning.

It's unfortunate really. This was my longest running show, I've had it since I started this business. I'm not holding my breath that anything is going to happen from here with this venue, so I now begin the search for a new gig. Hopefully this is just to make room for something better.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Sorry to hear that.... Enjoy the time off and someting will take its place after the Holidays. Did the owner ever explain the raising of prices and the stoppage of advertising ????

Sorry ripster...we had it happen this past week as well. Yes, something better waiting around the corner.

Our halloween gig ($250) had about 3 singers. We are doing a christmas party at the hilton and I,m getting swamped by dance reqeuests. maybe we will have some singers if not ??/? With all the crap now as evidenced by this forum public karaoke is becoming a thing of the past. My main purchases for new will be dance and disco type..

There are many reasons for the decline in popularity and the fact that less and less bar owners even consider karaoke, but due to spammers it is impossible to logically discuss these problems on this forum and try to come up with viable solutions.

I gave it and honest ride and go but due to factors and greed that ruined a good profession, I'll go back to strictly entertainment and DJ type type parties.

As with other professions I once again cut my losses and adapt to a fragile market. I will say even with a karaoke only type format I was not providing a second rate or mediocre product as it is still portrayed after all these years. That is the saddest part and SC or nobody else helped us promote it in a positive fashion.

Keep the sunny side side up and pedal to the medal, Ill catch you on the flop around.

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The drink prices were a feeble attempt to boost profits that they admitted backfired miserably. Unfortunately I also confirmed my suspicions that they were not advertising Karaoke as a way of ducking ASCAP/BMI. Sheesh!!

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I will be the first to say when I got into the Karaoke business thats all I wanted to do but being a business major I understood that for a business to thrive you had to diversify! When I started it was at a large bar and I was doing Karaoke on one end and they had poker on the other. Now even though it was classified as Karaoke night I always was flexible to the point if the majority wanted dance then dance, if its Karaoke then Karaoke. I have continued to add to my versatility through the 7 years I have been there. Now I have the ability to produce Karaoke, Dance music with Videos on big screens, TRIVIA (that is produced by my production partner) at anytime on any given night. You have to set yourself apart especially in these tough economic times. I would love just to do Karaoke but I do understand in order to grow I must be able to provide more than one entertainment option. It also allows me to take any aspect (Karaoke for example) to a whole new level that most of my competition cant offer. By diversifying it allows me the chance to continue to do Karaoke even if its not as much until that part of the business picks up again. In this bar we are now their house entertainment. Karaoke Tuesdays, KJ/DJ/Trivia Thursdays, Run sound for Bands and also DJ with full production setup on weekends. Times are tough right now so you may have to be more flexible. I equate it to the housing market sometimes its a sellers (KJ) market and you can dictate and sometimes its a buyers (Bar) market and they dictate.

Rip - it is definitely their loss not to have you. This owner has cut off his entire leg to save his toe. He'll be lucky to walk now. Dumb dumb dumb !

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You have your hands tied behind your back when the bar wants to hide from ASCAP, etc.

I know this thread is old, but we dealing with the same thing right now at TWO venues...it's really frustrating.

Thread back from the dead!

I had a bar like this. The actual bar area was quite small and thus always very crowded, shoulder to shoulder. No place for me or my equipment really, so they put me in the dining area which was very close (10 feet away), but essentially in another room and not in line-of-sight of the bar-goers. Sooooo people would hang out in the bar, I would be alone, they would drop by, sing a song, then return to the bar area. It never did catch on as you couldn't really engage the people.

Sadly, some bar floor plans just aren't designed for live entertainment...especially those with restaurants attached.

The problem around here is finding a bar the will commit long enough for a show to catch on.. as for promotion haha! yeah right. We promote like crazy.. but lately we are literally doing 99% of it.

The place I do my fill in shows at used to be REALLY hoppin'. We have had a few set backs there. It's always hot in the place. This is Florida, you need a good air conditioner. The drinks are a bit expensive, and for this summer, one of the other bars in the area has Ladies' Night on Saturday nights. Our Ladies' Night is Thursday. Because of this, the crowds have declined, and we do a Karaoke/DJ show now. My buddy is really starting to hate doing it. I don't mind, because I am getting to know the modern music scene a bit better, and am experimenting with techno and other dance genres. I know how to run Karaoke, but DJing I was a bit iffy about. I am getting better pretty quickly. Winter are much better around here, because the snowbirds come back. Many around here have moved, too, just to find jobs. The job market here is still crap. We are dealing with it, and are muddling on.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Yeah, summers in Florida are tough. The job market down here is crap and alot of friends and acquaintances of mine under the age of 30 are moving. Because it's so seasonal it does give me a chance to train my dj's and implement something new or different at our shows. Live trivia has been a breath of fresh air for me and my business and we do 4 trivia shows a week.
Karaoke down here has always been tough simply because so many venues offer it. Hopefully, in a few months we will all be slammed with snowbirds and then complaining about how busy we are:)

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

Our city passed a ban on smoking even in bars a few years ago and that, along with the economy, almost killed all the late night entertainment in all the bars and restaurants. The bar made up a "patio" outside and on the other end of the bar from where we are. Many nights, people just hang out there so they can smoke. Makes it really hard to keep people into the show.

When things slowed down, the bar owner decided that the reason was because I focused almost entirely on karaoke, with a few line dances thrown in from time to time of course. He wanted more of a mix of modern dance music mixed in with some karaoke. I pleaded with him to at least go with a DJ night and a karaoke night but he didn't want the type of crowd a all hip hop night would draw. I told him that his attempt to please everyone would ultimately please no one and I was right. When people come out to sing, and they hear three or four hip hop songs in a row, they will leave and they won't come back. Then, you draw some people in for the hip hop, and they hear a round of karaoke, they start bugging you with when are you getting back to the dance music. Eventually, it got to the point where we would only have a 30 singer night once or twice a month and the dance crowd slowed to a halt. The owner is now back to letting me do things as I see fit and that means focus on the singers. I either do a theme for my songs or go with all request for me and the listening portion of the crowd loves it. I had three tables of just listeners and then the full bar row was filled with people listening Saturday night and they picked out all my songs and loved it. My point with this to the owner is people can come out to a karaoke show, not sing, and still have a great time. If I get a party in, I'll throw some dance stuff in but the singers still come first.

Another issue I have to deal with is the owner's niece who has been tending bar off and on since we started. The problem now is, she's an every night tender and thinks she is the host. I wouldn't mind and I think it's really important to have great tenders that are involved but she sucks at being engaging. Many nights she's an out and out biach and she makes the crappiest drinks ever. My wife hates to go up if she's there and hates when this tender waits on her. She will do everything possible to avoid getting a drink from her. So if my wife feels this way, I am certain many of the regulars aren't as regular for the same reason.

The one thing I've learned is there will be turnover with a karaoke show. 20 somethings get married or split up and take friends with them when they go. 30 somethings move on with careers or have kids and end up coming out less and less. It's the same all the way up. I've built crowds three times and I'll build another one.
Oh, and we do it wigh zero advertising and our place is not on a main drag. Advertising is important but you can get by without it.

We've had the opposite effect. We are one of the only smoking bars because it's Tribal. We lost alot of good singers BECAUSE of the smoke and get the response from new singers that they love everything except the smoke and generally don't return. They go to bars with no smoking. I would LOVE if our bar went non-smoking like everywhere else.

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Don't get me wrong, I am much better off with the smoking ban. I don't smoke and I did have some singers that hated the smoke. The bar has some awesome smoke eaters but even still you'd come home and smell like an ash tray. But with most of my singers being smokers, we saw an instant drop in singers and people being into the show. Probably the largest issue with this is the patio where they allow people to take drinks to. People end up just sitting out there. If they didn't allow drinks (like they are suppose to) people would go smoke then come back in. I used to track down singers out there but I won't do it any longer.

We are getting more and more people that don't smoke but it was one of those instant show changers at first.