Karaoke Forums

Seems like just another sign of a lack of concern about the commercial KJ, who is apparantly not authorized to use most, if not all, karaoke tracks in a commercial setting, a general permissions scenario which many believe doesn't exist at all, but yet seem to have been marketed toward by all the major manufacturers.

You all know there are more commercial settings than just bar and club venues, and there seems to be some double-talk all over this forum about whether ASCAP/SESAC/BMI fees even cover use in bars. Even if they do, this does not help in scenarios where those agencies are not applicable.

I have been amazed for years the the CD+G factories produce product yet deny "Fair Use" as is required in any commercial setting..

If the company solicits business from KJs, why are the KJs required to pay additional funds to use the product?

The bars are required to pay the Professional fees to BMI, Ascap, etc, and this is supposed to allow performance..

How long has this extortion been going on?

Oh, wait, forever.. Never mind..

According to the KIAA in their flyer for venues it states:

What About ASCAP & BMI Fees?

As a bar owner you might think you have nothing to worry about since you're paying your ASCAP & BMI
fees which grants you a license to publically broadcast music. Think again. Performing Rights
Organizations (PRO) such as ASCAP, BMI and SESAC only represent the rights of the musical
composition owners (song writers/publishers), however these licenses do not cover the karaoke sound
recordings themselves.

So, based on this information, even if a bar owner is paying these fees, karaoke is NOT covered.

The sad thing is that most of the revenue of the karaoke publishers have come from KJ's who have spent thousands of dollars aquiring music libraries. It's no secret that these songs are going to be used commercially. And without the sales of professional KJ's, I don't think that these companies can survive on the sales that consumers spend on karaoke discs alone.

And then, we get slammed! We, the professional, are their bread and butter but yet they make it so difficult for us to do business with the products we legally purchased from them. They should be bending over backwards for us for the support and dollars we've been giving them throughout the years. Without us, they would be nothing.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

First off, the reference to "Karaoke Sound Recordings themselves" is incorrect. It is the Lyrical Graphic Reprints (Synchronization Rights) that they mean. So The "POOP" is handing out misinformation.

Secondly, I believe it's been pointed out in several other topic threads that ASCAP has added Karaoke in their list of coverage. I don't know/recall if the same was said about the others.

I was just at ASCAP's website, http://www.ascap.com, and I can not find it anywhere on their website where karaoke is covered under an ASCAP license. Maybe you can, I'd like to see it.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

as a host we were audited by ascap like 10yrs ago......if your playing music "audio" then ascap fee's cover the music portion of the karaoke. not the lyric's or logo's being displayed.

here's my story with ascap:
they came into the location i was playing at in small town idaho state.
they looked to see if i was playing from original or copied disc's, at the time they were all backup's i had made with a cd duplicator.

so by the end of the night the bar had signed a contract for the karaoke performance's and radio music and the dance floor and the occupancy size of the bar, cost them almost $450 a year after everything was said and done.

my side being the kj i had to prove i owned all my disc's that i had backup's for that were being used. so the next day they were at my door doing an inventory of my disc's, at the end of the ascap audit they informed me that someone had reported me as manufacturing disc's and that is why they were there.

i showed them my manufacturing studio, 1 disc duplicator and then layed out at that time about 400 original disc's and all my backups. they were there about 6-7 hrs looking at books and disc's. nothing wrong was found and running the backup disc's was kosher cause i was 1:1 compliant.

so in short if your playing music of any kind as a public performace it's then governed by ascap/bmi/sesac...

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It's all good!

My mistake... It's BMI that has specific coverage for Karaoke. Lonnie posted about it here... viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24483&p=339247&hilit=ASCAP#p339247

I know that others have also posted in the past about Karaoke being covered as well. Can some of you please chime in on this?

Here is the ASCAP fee structure from their website. Section three states that karaoke is an "enhancement to recorded music" and requires an extra fee of $1.89 per occupant, annually.

From the details: "Enhancements to Recorded Music (Line 3). This fee applies for the use of added features to recorded music such as, but not limited to, karaoke, DJs, emcees, dancing, shows, acts or games."

http://www.ascap.com/~/media/Files/Pdf/ ... es/BGT.pdf

It's definitely on the BMI rate sheet- I'm looking right at it....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Thank you... The "POOP" strikes (out) again!

So......all this being said, it appears the actual performances are under the licensing of ASCAP/BMI/SESAC/etc., in "RESTAURANTS, BARS, NIGHTCLUBS, AND SIMILAR
ESTABLISHMENTS". However, this does not approach the use of karaoke tracks in OTHER commercial settings, such as private parties, weddings, etc., since these entities are not part of the categories of this licensing agreement. Perhaps they have other agreements for singular activities like this.....???

I have never seen any PROOF of what constitutes a karaoke track designated specifically as "commercially useable", other than the alleged Pro status of the GEM Series (and maybe the alleged Pro status of Tricerasoft material). Still, all other major brands have been used in commercial settings, including original SC output, but what differentiates them from all other tracks in this regard? I simply have not seen anything that should keep anyone from using ANY track commercially if the ASCAP/BMI/SESAC/etc. fees are paid where the tracks are used.

This is the only trail that I can follow that doesn't seem to have breaks in the path. Still not 100% this is accurate, but if every scenario has holes in them, i.e. gray area, it would explain a lot of the unsurety I read on this forum. If there is truly a large gray area still out there, it would explain why no entity, whether it be manufacturer or lawyer or KJ or consumer or whomever, why no one has been completely definitive on the subject.....

your best bet is do some leg work on your part and get the facts from the horses mouth yourself.

call the exsisting manufatures and ask them.

one of the other host's in my neck of the woods pays his own ascap & bmi fees. just to cover is (@$%&#!) as he d/kj's a lot of weddings and private parties. i choose not until they come knocking on my door and request i pay them.

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It's all good!

I don't believe dj/kj can pay these fees for most places. They might be able to pay for each event like a private party (which they aren't required in the first place) or a wedding if it's held in a public venue, but cannot buy any kind of coverage nothing that would cover them in a bar or club show - the fees are required by the bar only.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

believe it or not, he pays 1100 a year in fee's, but he's playing regular music along with the karaoke....

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It's all good!

According to the reps at BMI, a dj/kj cannot purchase a blanket license that covers him. I looked into it a few years back myself and flat out told they do not license dj's (for general purpose), for single events - yes that aren't covered by a club/bar owner. I would expect he was paying for private events and wedding as they come along (not a general fee) - but even private events/weddings not in public settings don't need it.
So he doesn't pay SESAC just the other 2 for the private shows.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

i didn't say bmi either, he pays ascap...... yearly....


maybe he's lying to us other dj's i will do more investigating....

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It's all good!

Sorry, thought you had mentioned he paid BMI as well a little further up.

Which is why I responded about BMI.
I was told from others here - not going to search posts, that ASCAP is similar in that respect as they have also looked into it. I don't know on that one.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

sorry sometimes i type and don't pay attention to what i type... i didn't mean to add bmi...

brain dead. too many late nights.

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It's all good!

after seeing the post about a KJ paying ASCAP fees themselves I contacted ASCAP directly to see if they had decided to allow this type of licensing....the answer was a resounding NO. They do not offer a license for DJ/KJs. I know we had spent quite a bit of time attempting to procure a direct license 5 years ago and struck out...I was hoping things had changed but they have not. Someone is not being truthful.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

yeah, sorry turns out he's full of crap. he admitted to me he never paid any fee's and that he told the bars that so they would hire him. kinda like an incentive if they hire him he's already paying ascap fee's....

that kinda crap pisses me off. you think someone is reputable and they just turn out as sleezy as the next guy. and to think i've help him get some gigs.

sorry for the miss info, my bad for believing the guy.

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It's all good!