Karaoke Forums

Legal or not

Sound choice is only out for money
And if that is not true
Why are they charging kjs that bought the disc
A fee to prove they have the disc

There is no way to justify that cost to the kjs
If they where only out for the pirates they should not charge a legal kj any money at all
If they want an audit it should be at there cost and only there cost (after all they are asking to see your disc)

There is no argument to justify the cost to the kjs

I don’t understand why you guys just don’t say no to sound choice

What I mean by that stop using there disc
If everyone stop using there disc that would dry up the money pool
And two things would then happen no more sound choice and no more Harrington law

At least in karaoke
We as consumers have a lot of power
if we don’t buy or support sound choice

They go bye bye
I pulled my (back in 2009) disc and sold most of them
The only ones I kept where what I call illegal disc i.e. eagles
And the other disc that sound choice told there dealers to pull in the past years
For not getting all the rights to the songs on the disc and then replaced them with sc####-R

Did someone say class action ???
Maybe that is why I kept those discs just in case
I or some one needs them in the further

Just say no !!! Just say no !!! Just say no !!!

And all this crap will go away

First of all SC doesn't charge for using their discs. They have an audit fee for those who media shift their discs (IP). Two vastly different things.

BTW, EVERY BUSINESS is out to make money, hence the word business.

You seem to have gotten misinformation or twisted information.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Where did i say
SC charge for using their discs
and where did it say on the disc
when i bought the disc

there would be a charge later for putting my disc on my puter
if that was the case i would not of bought the sound choice disc at all
and i have wanted to ask you for a long time now why are you concerned about what goes on in the us ??

You either meant what I said or you wrote an incomplete sentence.

As for my comments on this or any other board, unless I write something that breaks the rules, I am free to do so.

To reuse your words, why is the US so concerned about what happens in other parts of the world?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I don't own any Sound Choice discs. I just bought a huge library costing thousands of dollars. I chose to wait until I have more money and I'm established as a Karaoke host before I invest in a Soundchoice library.

However, lets think about something for a minute. This goes for ALL Karaoke manufacturers.

Go back maybe 20 years - you get an idea that you're going to make Karaoke tracks and sell them. This is a business concept and the idea is to make a profit-you're an entrepreneur.

You buy or rent a building, build a studio in that building, install telephones and hook up the utilities, buy insurance, hire a music director to work with the musical arrangements and make sure the finished tracks sound as close to the original as possible and to hire competent musicians and background singers that also want to get paid, buy computer equipment and hire someone to run it to make the graphic portion of the CDG, hire a secretary to answer the phones and do some basic accounting, hire an attorney to help with the licensing legalities and advice, hire someone to contract the licensing-contact the songwriters or whoever owns the licensing etc. sign contracts for the rights to license the tracks and make arrangements to pay the licensing fees or pay them up front. And on, and on, and on . . .

Anyone who owns a business knows there are lots and lots of expenses, it never ends.

So now you have everything in place. You've spent a large amount of money and you don't know if it will ever pay off - it's a big risk.

After all of that, through hard work and planning, a big financial investment and spending lots of money every month for employees and other expenses you make lots of Karaoke tracks and sell a lot of them and things are good - FOR A WHILE.

How would you feel after making that huge financial investment and going through all that work to create Karaoke tracks if just a few people bought a few discs and then just copied them and sold or gave away copies and then they sold or gave away copies until no one was buying your Karaoke music except a few customers?

You still need to pay the musicians, you still need to pay rent on the building and pay the employees, you still need to make a living and make a profit if you're in business.

How would YOU feel if you KNEW there were fifty thousand or a hundred thousand or even more copies of your Karaoke tracks out there in the world that people were using to make money with every night, but you only sold a small fraction of those?

It's easy to rail against "the greedy corporation", but each case is different, just like YOU are different from everyone else.

If I had gone through all of the above, I would want to get paid for all of my hard work, financial investment and business acumen and I'm sure you would too.

If people stopped buying the product you were producing-only a few were buying it but many tens of thousands eventually were getting it into peoples' hands-they just weren't buying it from you anymore-WOULD YOU CONTINUE THE WORK, TIME AND EXPENSE TO PRODUCE MORE?

Can you go into a grocery store and walk out without paying?
Can you hire someone to do your taxes and then just not pay them?
Does Apple get paid for every Ipod and Ipad that they make?

If you don't want to pay for Soundchoice Karaoke, then don't use it.

[quote][/quote]
First of all SC doesn't charge for using their discs. They have an audit fee for those who media shift their discs (IP). Two vastly different things.

da
once again show me on the disc or the case it came in
where is says your quote

how do you go from sc in the us to the us and the rest of the world it sounds like you dont like the us ????

stogie
hi
have no problem with that
my problem is the way that they are going about it

going after the bars is not the right way !!!
charging me money for their audit is not right !!!

the bars here will not hire anyone using sound choice
weather you have sound choice blessing or not this is a good thing for me i dont use them any more but i have a lot of kjs i know that can not get work with sound choice in there system
that is what sound choice is doing to karaoke
and that is not a good thing

Are these attempts at Sound Choice Haiku's or something?

I will try:

Oddly written post,
Childlike and incorrect,
Mistruths make me sad.

And lawyers NEVER use mistruths?

This will be the last time I address this. My feelings haven't changed.

I have a background in business, manufacturing, quality, and a detailed wealth of experience in continuous improvement (google that term if you want to understand what that means in the manufacturing/business world). All told these experiences add up to 35 years.

My company would never and I mean NEVER come back and try to get more money from those that paid money to buy our products. You just don't do that to your LOYAL customers! I'm referring strictly to charging for an audit. If you want to put food on your table by suing pirates, no problem. In fact I support that fully. But don't try to charge me ONE dime, or a hundred bucks, or WHATEVER to go thru an audit and prove to you that I am 1:1. You want to audit my library, fine, JUST DON'T CHARGE ME! You are already asking for my time which is valuable.


YOU figure it out! I've paid for my product! You allowed a way for people to rip you off, go after them! Use your profits from your suits and settlements to pay for audits if audits cost you money in labor and whatever else it is that costs your company money. Make the audits free with the understanding that if it is discovered a KJ is not 1:1 that they will pay for the audit and pay settlement fees.

When my company has a problem and it will cost us more to manufacture the product (or service) we don't call up the customer and say "uh hey, we've got a problem we can't figure out so we are going to charge you more without giving you anything more for your money". No, WE put together a diversified team of inexperienced and experienced employees from across the organization (sometimes including our supplier/vendors) and we nip the problem in the bud WITHOUT passing cost along to our customer. And we usually do it in 4 days!

My company is a lot bigger than SC is or will ever be. We've grown tenfold since we starting using CI and are now up to #2 in sales in the WORLD by using this tool and mindset since we started it in 1992.

SC, if you want ALL your customers and former customers to view you and your services/products in a positive light, figure out your problems without charging those who've already invested thousands of $$$ in your business.

A company exists by doing one thing. Creating value. That value is only value WHEN the customer views it as adding value. Catch that? ONLY WHEN THE CUSTOMER SEES IT AS VALUE! Well many hosts have told you they don't view being charged for an audit as adding value. Listen to them or guess what? If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Let me spell it out for you, the % of KJs that are not happy with your audit system aren't magically going to change their minds if you don't change something (free audits). So prove to your loyal customers that are unhappy that you ARE in it for them and not just to make money. YOU eat the cost of the audit and figure out how to offset it!


I won't be responding to any responses to this post or talking about this again. I'm always open to change and some on this forum have seen me change my mind, I'm not often bullheaded but on this,,,, I am.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Just like they charge you for buying any kind of music and using it in public(ascap/bmi).....over and over again....doesn't matter they charge the venue, venue could own the cds....it's like paying royalties for a repair shop having employees using their own tools......

ps.....I really like SC tracks though.....so in spite of my views.....I'll do what they say....

Ripman nailed it dead on the head. They might not be able to recover from this "suing business model" PR nightmare as it is. Think about it.. KJs bought the product and are choosing not to even use it much less buy more. Bars won't even let SC (and probably soon CB) in the door. So the customers (singers) come in wanting to sing songs and they sing another version. Many of those customers are now buying songs on their own to do at home (I have several that do) and the KJ is the main contact these people have and I doubt they are sending them to Doowop.com for SC discs any longer.

Some half way common sense would very much be in order here. Forget the audits. You can walk into a place and look at the book and pretty much know what you are dealing with. If it looks like a bible times two, it probably needs to be looked at closer and if it is a 100,000 song hard drive deal then nail them to the wall. If it's in an inch binder you turn around and walk out and leave them be. If you need to know more, Ask the KJ if he'll give you songs or ask if he wants to buy some cheap. I would bet 99% of the time he'll tell you no thanks. I've been asked many times.

If you've gone through the trouble of already being in the place, why put the loyal paying customers through thumb screws and then charge them? Putting them through all this then charging them really is biting the hand.

PLUS, there is no loyal paying KJ out there that wouldn't be behind putting those 100,000 song drive thieves to bed with a butt whoopin and SC would get all the support they need from the honest guys. Who in their right mind is going to turn in someone when the pay back most likely would be an audit enema on your own dime?

It really is the most ridiculous business model I have ever heard.

Mike D, I think you're full of it. Most hosts don't choose not to use Soundchoice if they have a legal library. The hosts choosing not to use SC are the ones that have no discs or like me can't afford to buy the GEM series. The minority that own hundreds of SC discs and choose not to use them are just that, the minority.

Do I like that they charge for an audit? No, but I don't like paying taxes and a lot of other things either. Do what's right for your business, but don't tell me the majority of legal hosts are choosing not to use Soundchoice and the majority of bars and restaurants won't hire someone who has a legal Soundchoice library, that's bull.

And you don't want to pay for an audit - don't put them on the computer & play from disc only.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

hay Lonman
how are you been a while
since or hoster days

even if i play from disc sound choice said i still could get sude
there own words
it was posted some where in this forum

its ok have not used there disc for years
sold a lot of them still have a few

its kind of funny
my singers are all young
they go whats sound choice
they sing new songs so they dont even know what sound choice is
since they are not making any new songs

nice to hear from you hope all is well

They have no interest in those that are 1:1. Unfortunately there is no way to tell the difference between the 1:1 and the pirate. Hence the need for audits and lawsuits.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

It's very rare that an actual ODB user gets named in the lawsuits, and if that happens, they show their discs and be off.


All of our younger singers (most of our singers) don't want anything to do with the newer music, even though I still buy it - although not much worth selecting from these days. The majority of our singers - young and old prefer the 70's-early 2000 rock/pop/country which SC excels in these genres over most other brands. We do get people that come in from other shows that have quit using SC products - simply because they never owned a disc and are trying to avoid a lawsuit. I have no problem taking those customers and giving them what they want to sing - it's about them IMO.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That might be true where you are Stogie, but here, many of the clubs are not allowing SC to be played (anymore). They -- the clubs -- don't care about the "quality of the renditions" or anything else because all they care about is selling drinks. Getting sued because your KJ played an SC track is easily avoided: don't allow SC in the building and the problem is solved. It doesn't matter if the KJ has the Gem series, has an audit, got a certification etc., all those situations allow SC in the building and getting it out solves any problems in the future. It's the KJ's job to bring in people (they think) and keep them there... If the KJ can't do that, find another KJ because there are plenty of them, but don't let SC in the building. Problem solved. Karaoke entertainment in the clubs does NOT revolve around using/having that brand available but they'd love for you to believe otherwise.

To be honest, I was quite surprised how little of an impact -- practically none -- occurred when I dropped the brand. We had a couple whiners, for a couple weeks, then it was all over. The customers understood and life goes on without SC material in the club. Anyone so deadset on singing that brand only have (happily) gone elsewhere and have been replaced by new patrons. Send all your SC singers to Lonman and someday he too might be able to justify getting paid more than $100/night, but even his certification and use of SC despite of other casinos getting sued hasn't helped him yet.

Tell a club owner that they CAN'T EVER be sued by SC if you don't allow the tracks in the door & they can still have a profitable karaoke night and watch their ears perk up.

Yep send them my way, i'll be happy to accomodate those singer/customers from kj's that will not.
I get plenty more than $100/night at my current show?? I stated in the past that bars pay on avg of $100 and you are a lucky minority to get more.
Casinos as far as I know haven't been sued around here. But I do not work in nor have I ever worked in a casino - just a bar. And the certification may not really be doing anything,other than I do not fear a lawsuit from SC and I have gained customers because I use the product others won't so I would say that HAS helped in keeping customers coming.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Then pardon my confusion, I was under the impression that you worked at the bar in an Indian casino/bowling center and consequently, that's why smoking was/is allowed.



"Gained customers" hasn't really helped your bottom line has it? At least not yet however, it has apparently only helped the bottom line of your club and hopefully the "trickle-down economics" will eventually find you. But it's interesting that the first thing that you mentioned about your certification is that you "do not fear a lawsuit from SC." Which makes it sound more like protection money than anything else.

The comparison here is fairly simple:
#1.I don't use use their products at all, but the club has also not lost one dime in revenue because of the exclusion of their product.

#2. Neither I or the club, are concerned about being sued from SC.