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c. staley
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:42 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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kjathena wrote: As far as "personal use" burned CD+G's ....well suffice to say at least at my shows they will be in the same category as any other burns and will not get played.....have to protect myself and my venues. I guess those "certifications" really don't mean that much "protection" if you're so concerned about getting sued by SC or PR.... Not a "risk you're willing accept?" Are you concerned that a publisher will sue you and/or your venue? What are you protecting the venues from?
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Cueball
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:57 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm Posts: 4433 Location: New York City Been Liked: 757 times
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kjathena wrote: ....As far as "personal use" burned CD+G's ....well suffice to say at least at my shows they will be in the same category as any other burns and will not get played.....have to protect myself and my venues. Well, other KJs will more than likely allow the use of personal burns. And, if they are not subscribing to DT, then they are not liable to their TOU. I would still be using the disc for MY PERSONAL USE if I attend someone else's show and use it.
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:00 am |
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Super Plus Poster |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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My libraries are certified...I have not allowed "burns" to be played any shows since they started showing up. This is nothing new and even pre-dates my certification dates. Another good try Chip Cueball, You may find KJ's that are willing to play burns...I can not say what level of risk others may decide to take. This is simply where I decided to draw a line.
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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c. staley
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:06 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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kjathena wrote: My libraries are certified...I have not allowed "burns" to be played any shows since they started showing up. This is nothing new and even pre-dates my certification dates.
Nice attempt at a dodge, but finish the statement Athena... What are you "protecting" yourself AND your venues FROM? You state you want to "protect" them.... from what?
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:34 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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I am protecting myself and my venues from ANY possible legal problems that may arise from playing "unauthorized tracks" not on original discs.
It has been posted for 4 years at my shows the only singers disc's that will be played from ANY manufacture must be on a original disc....no burns no downloads. This extends to ALL BRANDS not just those I am certified by or have letters from.
I see no way to make this any more clear than I have done in this and other posts over the last 2 years.
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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Cueball
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:38 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm Posts: 4433 Location: New York City Been Liked: 757 times
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kjathena wrote: Cueball, You may find KJ's that are willing to play burns...I can not say what level of risk others may decide to take. This is simply where I decided to draw a line. Which I can understand and respect. I just do not intend to travel (when on vacation) with 100 extra original discs, just to prove that the 150 songs I have burned on 10 discs (from those 100 originals) are legit.
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:48 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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and that I can understand and respect also Cueball....If you are ever going to be in my area feel free to email me your favorite songs/versions and I will be happy to let you know what ones I do have (If my website is not up yet as the website has all 3 systems books) I'm certain you will be surprised as to the selection we offer
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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ripman8
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:09 am |
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:34 pm Posts: 3616 Location: Toronto Canada Been Liked: 146 times
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Well I ain't skared! I bought the new pop package, had to rename the files to work with Compuhost. Trying to buy the country but site must be down now.
I don't like CDGs, will keep my receipts. Sue me if you want!
_________________ KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 am |
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 10:11 am Posts: 1832 Location: TX Been Liked: 59 times
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Did anybody bother to read the TOS?
just something I saw: You agree with the fact that you are not able to use or to download audio materials from KaraokeCloud.com if it is in conflict with the legislation of your country.
KaraokeCloud.com is unable to control all KaraokeCloud.com users; therefore you are responsible for usage of the materials represented on the KaraokeCloud.com website.
You shall be authorized to use the Products only for personal, non-commercial use.
and there was lots more.
Sounds like OK go ahead and do it but if you get sued it's not our fault and you can never say it is!
_________________ I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS! A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet
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Brian A
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:16 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:43 pm Posts: 3912 Images: 13 Been Liked: 1672 times
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Be aware before you download for pro-use. Here’s another download site with a hidden fine print disclaimer - “You agree to use the service and the products available through the service for personal, non-commercial use only" http://www.karaokelocker.com/karaoke.plMostly Karaoke Channel manus. Ironic that PCDJ hosting software is associated with them. And when you click on PCDJ products they’re selling Karaoke Channel & SC Gem series. http://www.pcdj.com/index.php/products/(edited due to typo)
_________________ To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!
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earthling12357
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:35 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm Posts: 1609 Location: Earth Been Liked: 307 times
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I find it odd that those who declare the use of downloads in a public performance to be illegal are willing to turn a blind eye to the very same warnings that appear on the discs they use in their shows. typical soundchoice disc wrote: This material is protected by federal copyright laws. Unauthorized duplication, public performance or broadcast is a violation of applicable laws. These are professional re-creations and not renditions by the original artists If you aquire your music legally, it becomes legal to play in a public performance once covered by ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC. It does not matter what format the music is played from, it all enters the public ear in wave form. A legally downloaded file is no different than a legally purchased cd. They both get covered for public performance the same way. The warnings that accompany the music are there to protect the manufacturer by making it clear that the music was not licensed by them for public performance. When the venue you perform at pays their pro fees, the music then becomes licensed for public performance. If your venue is not covered by ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC your music is not licensed for public performance and you and the venue could be held liable by the original copyright holders (artists and publishers). The warnings from the manufacturers protect them from you pointing a finger in their direction to get out of trouble yourself. When the pro fees are paid by the venue, nobody will come after you for playing the music!Displaying certain trademark symbols are a different story.
_________________ KNOW THYSELF
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:45 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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Brian A,
All of the download sites have T.O.S (normally well hidden) stating the same info. With the exception of Tricerasoft I can not find it hidden on their site anywhere. That is why I will never use them for anything.
Educate yourselves people. As Professional KJ's we are held to a higher level of care legally. I have posted the information on this site more than once...for anyone to confirm that downloads are not licensed for use in the USA or Canada.
Decide what level of risk you are willing to place your business and your venues under....and pay for your decisions without playing victim.
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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earthling12357
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:03 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm Posts: 1609 Location: Earth Been Liked: 307 times
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kjathena wrote: I have posted the information on this site more than once...for anyone to confirm that downloads are not licensed for use in the USA or Canada. Please provide a link to your posting of this information. I can't find anything here that proves anything of the sort, and since you say you have posted it you should be able to find it much easier.
_________________ KNOW THYSELF
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TommyA
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:13 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:34 am Posts: 193 Images: 1 Location: Austin, TX Been Liked: 24 times
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Anyone else notice on the sign in/ sign up page for the Digitrax Hits of the Month that they mention Priddis as one of the suppliers of the "hottest new releases"?
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:34 pm |
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Super Plus Poster |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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earthling12357 wrote: kjathena wrote: I have posted the information on this site more than once...for anyone to confirm that downloads are not licensed for use in the USA or Canada. Please provide a link to your posting of this information. I can't find anything here that proves anything of the sort, and since you say you have posted it you should be able to find it much easier. Earthling12357, below is the first reference I can find...you are welcome to follow the trail from there. I have searched it out and re posted it now multiple times. Today I am too busy to spend hours going tru every post to find it again. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24483&p=339269#p339269Also The recent posts from Stellar covered the same information in detail....you should be able to read that thread and get the information from Stellar's post also. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24520&hilit=Stellarthe first reference is about 16 posts down and the subject is touched on a few times in the entire 6 or so pages,
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:51 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm Posts: 5107 Location: Phoenix Az Been Liked: 1279 times
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Brian A wrote: Be aware before you download for pro-use. Here’s another download site with a hidden fine print disclaimer - “You agree to use the service and the products available through the service for personal, non-commercial use only" http://www.karaokelocker.com/karaoke.plMostly Karaoke Channel manus. Ironic that PCDJ hosting software is associated with them. And when you click on PCDJ products they’re selling Karaoke Channel & SC Gem series. http://www.pcdj.com/index.php/products/(edited due to typo) this is the funny part..... "You can use the content we supply for commercial use" from Ryan with PCDJ in november. it has changed since then and is just the decision of the site. the two manus they distribute are Karaoke Channel and Music Factory, both of which are also available through Select A Track and are fine for pro use according to them. it is just what the site wants for the rules. if a manu sells content to a site that allows pro use, it would be the manus fault if they dont want it used pro. this would be like John Deere selling lawn mowers to http://www.trigreenequipment.com/ and getting upset that they selling to landscape companies. they knew when they sold it to a company that resells to other companies how it would be marketed and sold, if they did not, it's their problem for not investigating first (we are not the only ones that must investigate).
_________________ Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:38 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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Paradigm Karaoke, There is a reason why most sites do CHANGE what they say about the legality of overseas downloads....They do the research and find that the LOM L Plus licensing offered by PRS for all UK companies specifically excludes the USA and Canada.
I have personally posted the information for anyone to check numerous times. The sad situation is that in continuing to sell to the USA and Canada these companies are risking waking the "sleeping dragon" the last time that occurred imports for resale were stopped....if the dragon is awaken again filters to prevent sales to the USA and Canada maybe required.
To the best of my knowledge every site except Tricerasoft now does post in T.O.S that downloads now have the "if in conflict with the legislation of your country...you can not use" type clause. I personally am not willing to accept the risk in using downloads at this time. If/when licensing that is legal in the USA exists I will reconsider my decision.
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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earthling12357
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:24 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm Posts: 1609 Location: Earth Been Liked: 307 times
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Since we are having nearly identical conversations simultaneously on two threads, I will just copy and paste this response to the other. KJAthena, In your comments here you have provided no evidence to back up what you claim. When asked for evidence, you have merely quoted yourself. I have made the claim that legally purchased downloads are legal in the United States, and I offered actual proof. I don’t mind you making fun of me with your used car salesman comment, yet you offered absolutely nothing in terms of actual proof of your position. Once again I shall offer actual proof of my statement: Quote: Copyright Law of The United States Title 17 of the United States Code
Chapter 1 § 109 (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.
Chapter 6 § 602 (a) Infringing Importation or Exportation.—
(1)Importation.—Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501. (2) Importation or exportation of infringing items.— Importation into the United States or exportation from the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords, the making of which either constituted an infringement of copyright, or which would have constituted an infringement of copyright if this title had been applicable, is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under sections 501 and 506.
(3) Exceptions.—This subsection does not apply to—
(B) importation or exportation, for the private use of the importer or exporter and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States or departing from the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person’s personal baggage; As you can see, importation of a lawfully made copy is legal. In fact these are the same laws you would site to justify your importation of your custom discs. If you choose to maintain that your importation of custom discs is a legal act, then you must agree that it is the same with a download, or admit that you will ignore the law to get what you want (just like a pirate would). Your premise is flawed. Your argument is flawed. Your logic is flawed. And your double standard is glaring. Of course in addition to risk, we all choose our own levels of integrity, and honesty that we are willing to accept for ourselves. kjathena wrote: I wish I had run into more people like you when I was part owner in a used car lot I would have made a lot more $$$$ I'm not surprised you were that kind of used car salesman. I'll bet you sold a bridge or two in your time as well. It appears you are still trying to sell the "shine" to unsuspecting consumers.
_________________ KNOW THYSELF
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kjathena
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:39 pm |
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Super Plus Poster |
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm Posts: 1636 Been Liked: 73 times
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"Since we are having nearly identical conversations simultaneously on two threads, I will just copy and paste this response to the other."
I shall do the same.
earthling12357, To borrow your words
"Your premise is flawed. Your argument is flawed. Your logic is flawed."
UK companies have been banned from importing CDG's since early last year. The only exception is 1 of sales directly to a consumer. Try and buy recent Sunfly discs from a US retailer or brick and mortar you will find you can not do so...same with any other UK company still in business.
Oh and by the way I never sold cars...I owned interest in a used car lot.
_________________ "Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain." Unknown "if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters." Lee McGuffey
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earthling12357
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:46 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm Posts: 1609 Location: Earth Been Liked: 307 times
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Is this a bait and switch tactic? I'm sure we were talking about the legalities of buying downloads, not CDGs.
_________________ KNOW THYSELF
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