Karaoke Forums

when I get all 12 responses in I will post a summary of responses by publisher....I would strongly suggest everyone ask the same general questions using any 12 recent releases they wish......I am asking the 3 largest publishers however you can use any number of them you like.

I have grown to expect anything I post to be dismissed, therefor my strong suggestion for each person to ask questions themselves.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I do not feel that presenting counter-arguments as being a negative thing. It does seem, however, that the perception of someone believing these arguments to be personal attacks could be a bit self-important. Having an open mind to the possibilities, and the adverse position as well, would seem prudent...

The people at the publishers I have communicated with have directly stated to me that KJ's who own the tracks on Original Manufactures Disc are insulated if they use disc or are digital. I would not have posted this if they had not stated it.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Been attacked enough on these forums....I know better than to leave myself for more. I do have an open mind as to the possibilities...that is the reason for this whole TEST. The last time I researched this issue I reached a conclusion(not legal). I have accepted that things may have changed and undertook this small sampling to see if things may have changed.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

If this is truly the case, would it be safe to assume that the presence of logos in the tracks, since they are obviously not a necessary function of the track, have been placed there for either or both of these purposes:

1) Advertisement for their product (a product from which profit has already been realized) that cannot, allegedly, be properly circumvented?

2) Solely as a vehicle to allow for the creation of a trademark infringement for unsuspecting media shifters?

Just some questions for thought....

there are two separate groups that own rights to a karaoke tracks 1. the publisher of the original work and 2. The karaoke manufacture

Different as apples and oranges

The karaoke manufacturer does place a trademark on each track that can not be legally removed. I am certain it is used for advertising the product they produce. Same as the trademarks on Coke, Pepsi or Disney are used to advertise the product they sell. If you are using a karaoke track without permission( IE media-shifted)...you can be sued. If you sold Bubble cola repackaged in Coke bottles and were caught you would be sued. ...If you use a Disney trademark without permission...you can be sued.

Just because you do not like a fact doesn't mean you can ignore it.

Just

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Sorry, your analogy is flawed.

Selling "bubble cola" in Coke bottles IS a MISrepresentation. But I don't believe there's a law to prevent you from selling Coca Cola in an UNLABELED red solo cup with a sign that says; "Soft Drinks .50 each"

You haven't falsely advertised anything.... you haven't called it "Pepsi" or "Coca Cola" and you are under no obligation to advertise the "trade name" at all, much less for free. Just as the trademark is not a "functional" part of the karaoke track -- it doesn't have to be there to play the track back successfully.

And with karaoke, YOU'RE not "reselling" THEIR product.






She hasn't yet....

It's very easy to just say "12 said no and 2 said yes.... so that's the law" Which is baloney. At least I reproduce what they actually said with identifying information removed....

anyone that wants specifics is welcome to take my suggestion and choose 12 tracks and ask the questions themselves...I refuse to spend my time and effort to just be beat upon on this forum. I am just providing the same type of info that other here have done. I will not take the chance of alienating my contacts at the 3 publishers I have developed for those who are not willing to spend a little of their own time to get answers. If you do not wish to pay attention to my info...oh well your loss not mine. I am surprised to have received a yes answer....who knows I may find something has changed.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I do wish converse thoughts could be conveyed without even hints of personal reflection; sometimes deriving that cannot be controlled, other times it is obvious some folks cannot help themselves.

Applicable/non-applicable analogies aside, I do not see it as "repackaging" when the tracks are used. The licensing for public use is provided by the payment of royalty agencies' fees, not by the showing of logos. The logo is on the PHYSICAL product, as it is on Coke or whatever. Once it is sold, to be consumed, it can be poured into a plain glass or cup for cunsumption without fear of being audited. Many, MANY, M A N Y tracks have been produced over the years without the presence of logos...so they are certainly not mandatory.

Besides, one can always manually (via video switcher, et al) or automatically (via "future"--or maybe even present???--developed software to blank screen when logo appears) black them out without fear of repercussion, allegedly...

I understand your wish....and some tracks have been released without LOGO's over the years, however, it has been determined by the court system that removing logo's from karaoke tracks is against the law (therefore you can not repackage the tracks removing the trademark)....and if it is done they can still add the charge of willful infringement and tradedress. This is a battle already lost. I am determined to deal with the issue at hand, the legality of downloads here in the USA ....at least to my satisfaction. Educate yourself....make your decisions....pay the price for your choices....don't gripe about it.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

There is a third possibility, which I will number as 2) since you skipped it, and that is to identify the source of the product. Speaking for my client, whose brand is well known as a premium product, they are very interested in taking credit for producing a high quality product, and the trademark is one way of doing that. This answer has the bonus benefit of being the actual reason, since SC secured its federal trademark rights more than a decade before it began enforcement on the basis of trademark infringement.

Harringtonlaw -- thanks for snidely pointing out my typo...rofl

Put some proof out there... WHICH court? WHEN? WHAT CASE?

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.... at all.

Chip all this information has been posted here on these forums before.....do your own research.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

What you really mean is that you have not a single court case to back up your hot air claim(s).... and now you want to send me on a wild goose chase?

Fat chance.

You're the one spouting the "court has determined" crud --- but when pressed about which court, you run away from your OWN words....

Figures. And very predictable.

Nice try. Any other stories you'd like to convince me of?

A public school here had Disney characters painted on one of their outside walls. It was there for years but Disney caught up to them and told them to take out their characters or be sued. The school painted them over.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Dastar Corp. v. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp., 539 U.S. 23 (2003).

Among other things, that decision noted that the Lanham Act prohibits "reverse passing off," which is the act of taking an existing product and passing it off as your own by modifying the trademarks, when doing so is likely to cause confusion as to the source of the goods. (That case also articulated an important exception to the rule; when a copyrighted work falls into the public domain, a reverse passing off claim cannot stand because of the public's right to use the work without the trademark attached.)

Granted, it's not a karaoke case, but gee whiz, it is, as we lawyers like to say, on "all fours" with a karaoke case.

Oh, and that case report is the opinion of a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court.

But would a person's desire to avoid advertising a product for free during the course of their business be the same as trying to confuse someone of the product's origin?

Well a person would have almost an impossible time trying not to "advertise for free" anything in this world of ours. Look at what you are wearing, there are TMs and logos all over them, same with your vehicles, the computer you are typing on, the bottled or canned drink by your computer. Now do you honestly believe that all these manufacturers should be paying us for using their products?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

That's possible, of course. I'm pretty sure we've never sued anyone for deleting the logos (although we have identified the deletion of the logos as evidence of willful infringement, but they still infringe the trade dress and, more importantly, they almost always fail to delete all of the logos).

When I go to a show and I see the SC and CB logos digitally deleted, but SF and PHM aren't, that causes me to draw an entirely different conclusion from the one you're suggesting.