Karaoke Forums

Harrington covered this in a different post, the manus can not licence any karaoke tracks (download or disc) for public use. they license them and to make them ok for public use the venue must pay the appropriate PRS fees (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC in the U.S. or PRSformusic in the U.K.). they do not have the ablility to make even license discs ok for KJ use.

they paid a license to make it, and sell it. what you do with it falls on you.
wanna play it as a KJ, have your venue pay the PRS.
wanna record with it, pay the license fees to the recording owner and license holders
wanna use it in a soundtrack, pay the license to the recording owner, license holders and sync fees.
wanna resell them on a website, license it from the recording owner, license holders, and sync fees.

the karaoke manu can only license so far, anything beyond making and selling it falls on the purchaser, there is no home use license and no pro use license, there is only a use license. unless someone can find the two different licenses.........cuz i can't.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I think the whole thing is retarded and needs to be fixed. All this nonsense is just too much to care about. It's a simple thing. You run a karaoke business, you should have the exact same privileges and rights as a DJ. Karaoke mfrs shouldn't have BS rules about what you can and can't do with the music you buy, and downloading Karaoke should be just as legal as downloading regular music. It's all nonsense that is designed to destroy this industry. Think about this, you can use iTunes music which has to be downloaded, for home use or DJ use, but you can't use iTunes to play that music. With Karaoke, you can use any program you want, just don't download the music, because that is only for home use. Even Karafun can be used for shows AS LONG as you don't use THEIR downloadable karaoke. If you supply the music they are fine with you using their program in a public setting. The whole thing is ridiculous.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

There is no need for confusion.

The confusion on this matter was created by karaoke CD manufacturers who would not differentiate between illegally copied and downloaded tracks (torrents and file sharing) and legally purchased downloaded tracks in the same way that they do differentiate between illegally copied CDs and legally purchased CDs. It served them well to perpetuate this confusion because they wanted to be able to continue to sell their over-priced CDs to those who were frightened by the confusion they created.

Now that they have finally decided to enter the twenty first century and offer downloadable products of their own, they are facing the problem of undoing the confusion they have created while leaving just enough of it in place to continue to frighten their potential customers away from their competition. The latest tactic is to point out the terms of service on the website and create some fuss over the words "for home use only" while ignoring the fact that the terms of service printed right on their own CDs state the very same thing.

Karaoke tracks whether on CD or Download are sold "for home use only". No difference. If they sold them any other way they would be selling rights they do not own and can not sell.
Your CD is just as illegal to use in a public performance as your download would be if the venue you play it at hasn't paid the fees to the appropriate Performing Rights Organization. These fees are applied to the venue because that's how they calculate the size of the public audience and therefore the size of the appropriate fee.
It's really no different than it is for Juke Boxes, DJs, Televisions, Radios, Movies, and Cover Bands, which are also for "home use only" until the right people get paid.

You can't legally play someone else's music in a public setting unless the owners of that music get their royalties. The legal mechanism in place for that are the Performing Rights Organizations. When the venue pays it's dues, your "home use only" collection is magically transformed into a "pro use" collection for that place at that time.

Whether home grown or imported, if you have legally aquired your music collection be it Vinyl, Audio Cassette, Video Cassette, Laser Disc, Compact Disc, Hard Drive, Secure Digital Card, or Download it can all be legal for use in a US based show.

There is no need for this confusion except by those who hope to gain from the confusion.

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KNOW THYSELF

[quote="Paradigm Karaoke"

but you are buying complete discs.......that's $15-$20 for one or two songs. buying one off downloads makes it $2.00 a song. if you are spending $200.00 a month on custom discs or just buying discs maybe you COULD benefit from the cloud,[/quote]

Just wanted to mention that one of the benefits to buying whole discs is the expansion of the library to include songs that I may never have though of. I've made some singers very happy with some of those accidental acquisitions.

Also, if you can buy from compilation production brands you can get WAY more useable songs per disc.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

So, what you're saying would also apply to the tracks made available (for Home Use Only) from Sound Choice's Karaoke Channel. I think SC and Mr. Harrington might have something different to say about that.

probably not as he and sound choice have nothing to do with Karaoke Channel. the only connection between them is SC sold its library in '07 (i think....) to Stingray Music and licence it back to sell, just like SC licenses it's material to Clark Music to sell.

not to mention, Harrington is one of the people stating that there is no pro license available to karaoke manus.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Actually, I don't think SC owns Karaoke Channel anymore, so they actually have no say in the matter.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

SC never owned KC, they just sold the library to the parent company of KC which is Stingray Digital. where the big confusion happens is that Derek, Kurts brother and co-founder of SC, was the licensing director for Stingray for a time. the two companies as far as i could find had no real relationship besides that.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Soooooooooooo, who is going to bother us if we use their music in our shows???

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Yes i've had that happen in the past as well, however it's not very common.

Exactly. But what is requested on one disc it's far more useable than buying a disc with one song.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

What about clubs like The Eagles, The Elks, Knights of Columbus, etc. These are non profit places that I doubt pay any "PRO" fees.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Those are private clubs, aren't they?? That would be like home.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smooth, then you would be wrong, they also have to pay their PRO fees. A quick check of the ASCAP shows that.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Interesting take - any data to back up this bold claim? I'm honestly intrigued. Is it a a concern that the playing field would be leveled a bit for new KJ's that have subscribed?

I know a quite a bit more about the DJ industry, and I know it's not about the content - it's about the skill and personality (and self promotion). I know that skill may not equate here as you're not mixing music, but I'm sure personality is even more so a factor.

Please elaborate if you can, thanks!

Attached you will find the 150 song “Catch Up” pack. These songs are the top 150 from November 2011 to October 2012. The cost for this is $300 and they come in MP3+G format. But remember if you purchase this pack then you will also receive $300 in gift cards to the Karaoke Cloud for our KJ Affiliate program. If you have any questions please let me know.



Thanks,

Gretchen

I will attach the list along with the other 2 documents later tonight when i have time

What he means is now a club can cut out the outside kj and do it in-house and pay some slep minimum wage for running the show.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

I think Ryan's point still stands. The club with the best KJ will win out in the long haul. The new guy won't have a customer base and the pirate that switches to the cloud will have out of pocket every month he didn't have before. I'll be honest, I wouldn't run a show with nothing but the cloud right now. There are a ton of go to's missing and many others that CB did really suck. I don't see the cloud evening anything up at this point. If it had obscure and newer tracks from makers I didn't mind using for a reasonable price, I'd use it as a filler. But the last thing I'd worry about is going up against someone that only used the cloud. If there was bigger and better content? maybe..

We are already paying some "Slep" again and again and again. Sorry Danny, I couldn't resist.

The point Danny was making is: if you make it so cheap that anyone with a desire to be a KJ can get into business, the price per show will go down, just like it has with all the illegals (pirates). The big expense of KJing has never been the PA system, it has always been the legal library. I can see our competition getting way more numerous, and I bet some of them will be very good at it too.

No need to elaborate, it's all been covered here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25523
(read the whole thread)

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.