Karaoke Forums

It seems that constant defending of SC could be construed the same way.......

Whatever.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

It's not SC's policy. It's Stingray's policy. Using their downloaded tracks for commercial purposes is a breach of your agreement with Stingray when you purchased the tracks. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to live up to your part of the bargain.

Except YOU are the ones ratting people out. So, in essence, it is YOUR policy. That is ok, I already sent them an e-mail blasting them about this crap. One of these PATHETIC excuses for vendors has to do something for their customers to make things easier and less of a hassle. I did a show last week, and was able to download four songs that got requested, from Tricerasoft. THAT is how business needs to be done!!! That is smart business, and that is how to treat customers properly!! Your people should take some lessons!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smooth, I don't think it's KC's choice not to let you use the tracks commercially, it's my understanding that they only have the download license for home use As for SC, it's none of their business in this case, they DO NOT own these tracks anymore and it is your call to take the risk of using them in public

But if you see someone breaking into your neighbors house & stealing, is it none of your business or do you report the illegal activity? I for one report it - and would expect the same from any company - including SC watching out for and reporting illegal usage. Then IF the company that was reported to decided to do anything, then so be it.

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It's not worth the risk if the SC man shows up and rats me out to Stingray. That would be hilarious. I have nothing wrong with SC, but I get sued by Stingray. Unbelievable. The lengths these people will go to to make it harder for KJs to run their shows.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The last sentence illustrates your mistake and why you're having such a hard time with this.

We have no interest in making it difficult for KJs to run their shows. As I have said many times, we endorse all three legal options with respect to SC content:

1. Play from the original disc.
2. Play from non-original media, as long as you follow all of the rules for doing so.
3. Don't use the product at all.

There is simply no reason why anyone would have a legitimate problem picking at least one of those three options. Different people have different styles, different goals, and different abilities. Those three options cover the waterfront. More importantly, there is not a music publisher on earth who would have a problem with ANY of those options with respect to SC content. You want the convenience and savings associated with downloads? Great. We'd love to give it to you. But there is not a mechanism currently that allows us to do so, despite our efforts. The fact that we can't yet offer that does not give you carte blanche to ignore the rules.

no more than your continual support of everything they do.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Harrington, you are full of it!! If your client WANTED to offer single song downloads they would get it done. It is a money maker, which is why there are more services offering that option. Your client isn't interesting in anything but controlling what their customers do with their products. There is no reason why they can't get a download service going. I don't want to hear about producers, or any other BS, cause that is all it is. If Kurt wants to make money, he will do EVERYTHING in his power to get the job done. It seems services like Digitrax are getting the job done. SC just want to play the roll of enforcer, telling people how to use their product, ratting out people that use KC tracks in the wrong manner, and suing everyone they can.

I DO use my SC crap the way it is intended. It sucks, I hate it, but I will not pay anything more for those crappy disks than I already paid when I bought them.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

this confused me Jim, All Star and Digitrax can, why can SC not?
what license can not be gotten? Download license is available, Paying PRO makes it usable for pro use, so what exactly is it that is missing?

on a side note, i e-mailed Stingray directly to ask and the response i got was.....

"...Stingray is not interested in the commercial KJ market and did not get the rights from the music publishers to sell or distribute karaoke tracks knowingly to the KJ commercial market. Stingray does not manufacture any physical goods product and therefore it has to request and pay for specifically additional fees for commercial use."

is he mistaken? i do believe you stated that there is no such license for commercial use.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

all-star advises all KJ's to purchase on custom disc for professional use

after contacting All Star asking about that, they said that it is recommended that pro's purchase a disc is for the backup, it is not a requirement as the downloads are licensed the same, and both require the PRO's to be paid for public use.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

It seems to me the answers we are getting are a bit misleading and evasive.
I looked to the Stingray Karaoke Channel terms of service for the true answer;
http://store.thekaraokechannel.com/stor ... c-4034.htm

These Terms of service remind me of the Gem Series agreement in many ways.
It’s all about maintaining control over the usage, which is not in itself a bad thing.
In fact, maintaining some control would have been a good thing to do from the very start.
The way it’s being done now leaves much to be desired – straightforward truthful answers being amongst the top of the list.

Here’s your explanation on ownership:

It’s not that you wouldn’t be able to use it in a karaoke show because of some law prohibiting its’ use in that manner, it’s because you agreed not to at the time of purchase - just as you agreed not to own the file. And you agreed to settle any dispute in North Carolina;



It appears to me that these terms of service were designed to enable Stingray to sell music from the Soundchoice library without stepping on the toes of the Soundchoice litigation machine. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were honest about it instead of trying to distract us with bogus explanations. The fact remains that Soundchoice and Stingray have every right to sell and distribute their products in any manner they deem is good for their business.

We could argue about whether a website terms-of-service of this sort has any legal standing, but would it be worth the hassle to try to prove it in court?

To sum it up:
Big deal.
There are plenty of other sources for music where you don’t have to sign away any of your rights and you can get straight answers without prying them from their representatives after the evasion wears too thin to keep up.
KJs are not entitled to anything but their ability to choose who to do business with.

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KNOW THYSELF

This is the e-mail I got back from Derek Slep, today:

Hello,

I founded Sound Choice in 1985 along with my brother and partner Kurt Slep. We sold the catalog to Stingray music in 2007. I sold my interest in Sound Choice and now do all the specialty music licensing for Stingray.

W I know that music publishing rights are often confusing but he fundamental rights requested from the publishers are the reasons why The Karaoke Channel song downloads are not for commercial bar karaoke applications.

After the sale Sound Choice kept its rights to make CDG and the publishing that goes along with physical goods product and getting the karaoke synchronization license for commercial use. The CDG license has a built in commercial use component so that is why physical disks are automatically allowed to be sold and used in a commercial setting.

Stingray is not interested in the commercial KJ market and did not get the rights from the music publishers to sell or distribute karaoke tracks knowingly to the KJ commercial market. Stingray does not manufacture any physical goods product and therefore it has to request and pay for specifically additional fees for commercial use. The company decided not to pursue that route because after all it has Sound Choice as its commercial KJ licensee and therefore Sound Choice and its products have commercial use granted when you purchase the discs. Currently the only legal way to use Sound Choice/Stingray Music in a commercial bar setting is to buy the same songs that The Karaoke Channel has through Sound Choice or its network of distributors.

Again to be very clear I am sorry you are not able to buy individual downloads
for use in commercial applications under the Sound Choice / Stingray Music/ The Karaoke Channel brand name for commercial use.

To play by the rules you have to go to Sound Choice and by their disc as the current method. However without tipping my hand too much the KJ market has spoken loud and clear to Sound Choice and it's desire to buy single song downloads and it will be addressed in the coming months. Looks for various announcements from Sound Choice.



Let's see what these big announcements are. I don't believe either of these Sleps.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

What about the 500 Karaoke Channel tracks available for download on SelectATrack? Legal or not for use by KJ's in commercial settings?

I don't see where SelectaTrack has KC tracks for download. However, their terms specifically state that their licensing is through MCPS. MCPS licenses do not allow for commercial use in the United States or Canada.

When SC has asked for download licensing in the past, the publishers have set the rates at an uneconomical level. I am not privy to the agreements between publishers and DT or AS. Those are relatively recent developments.



What you've quoted is a slight misstatement. What the rep is referring to are additional fees that allow distribution by download for commercial use. As you know, the publishers have the ability to control not only use but also distribution (a separate right of the copyright owner). The publishers have historically demanded high fees to allow tracks to be distributed by download when the market is commercial in nature.

That REP that you mention is Derek Slep, himself. I should HOPE the owner of the company knows what he is talking about. I posted the REST of that e-mail in my post. It was written by Derek.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Derek doesn't own Stingray, where did you get that from. He was a consultant during the first year or so.

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