Karaoke Forums

There is some discussion going on over in the "No Sound Choice No Show" topic thread regarding songs already produced in an altered Key from the original as versus the use of Key Changes when singing a song. This made me wonder about the use of the Key Change when going out to a show. Most of us here (in this Forum) are hardcore Karaoke people... Folks who have been either singing at or running shows for years. I would say it's safe to assume that every one of us here knows what a Key Changer is, and when they need to use it.

As a KJ, you have had many people come to your show/s. Some have been Regulars for many years. How many people (who attend your show/s) would you say are aware that such a device exists? What do you do (and how often) to make more people aware of this?

As a Singer, when did you first become aware that such a device existed? How dependent have you become on the use of a Key Changer?

I started going to Karaoke shows in 1995. I kinda stumbled onto it by a fluke. For the first 6 months, I was just going to a local show in my neighborhood. I didn't even know that this existed at other Bars. When my work-nights were about to change, and I knew that I was no longer going to be able to attend that show, I discovered that there were other places hosting Karaoke on different nights of the week. I started to check them out, and I settled into a place that hosted Karaoke 6 nights a week.

About 6 months after becoming a Regular at this place, one of the Hostesses made me aware of the Key Changer. She had suggested that I might feel a little more comfortable if I take the Key Down 1 the next time I sing that song ("Cold As Ice" by Foreigner). Well, a few days later, I tried that, and it did make me feel like I wasn't straining to sing it. Prior to that, I was never aware that you could have the Key Changed for a song before you start singing it. The KJ at the first show I went to never made any type of announcements regarding this, and neither did the Hosts or Hostesses at this new show I was going to. So, all told, I wasn't aware of this until well into 1 year of my going out for Karaoke.

Over the years, I have been to many shows, and, in general, I don't hear announcements being made about the ability for the KJ to change the Key for any song you wish to sing. About the only time that I hear anything said, is when a Singer says something like, "I can't sing THAT song because it's too high for me." This is not always directed at/to the KJ. Sometimes it's just conversation amongst friends sitting at a table together. I know, when I hear a friend say that, I will suggest that he/she ask the KJ to change the Key, and then explain (if necessary) what that means.

After about 1 year of going out to Karaoke shows, I found a Karaoke Store in the City. I started to buy discs for myself, and shortly thereafter, purchased a portable machine. When I was making the purchase, the guy also sold me on getting a Key Changer. He said that, "A Key Changer is a necessity for the Serious Karaoke Singer." I bought it, and as I started to expand my personal library, I was actually surprised at how many songs I needed to change the key for. As for how often I make use of a Key Change, it all depends on what song I am singing. I have well over 100 songs that I personally like to sing when going out, and I would say that there are at least 20 of those songs where I need to alter the key (anywhere from up/down 1 to up/down 5).

As a kj, i couldn't wager a guess as to how many singers know or don't about key changers. However I do have key up/down spots on my slips, and those that want a change will use it. Sometimes with an arrow, sometimes with the number. On occasion i'll get a ?? in both spots, so these people truly do not know, but this is not common. I get key change requests at every show from several singers per night, but would be hard to actually keep track.
Now I do try to educate people if a song is too high or low that they can alter the key, on occasion I will get someone who goes - really? Other than that I don't really make announcements or anything, will generally talk to people one to one if I think they could pull off a song in a different key.

As a singer from one of my first times singing karaoke, I tried a song too high out of my range & the kj suggested to me that I might want to lower the key of the song next time by a couple steps. That kj educated me, which is why I try to do the same. I will change a key up or down (usually down) now if I am not comfortable in the range of a song for my voice.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

And you were lucky to have a KJ notice and say something to you on your first time out. As I stated, I was going to a place for at least 6 months before one of the Hostesses suggested that to me (and I had sung "Cold As Ice" at that place many times before that). Not all KJs do that. And also, not all KJs have song request slips with a Key Change option included on it.

Hard pressed finding kj's that actually have printed song requests at all these days according to almost every newbie that comes in. Some have told me that ours look like it's a professional company (duh_ ), most places apparantly just have uneven cut up scraps of paper - IF they even have that.

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A minority of people know or care about key change. Some resist doing it. I tend, now, to sing songs that are naturally in my range, but I have a few that I change key on. I've had a smattering of KJs who refuse to change key, claiming that it ruins the sound. No huhu for me, as I am not discombobulated by that -- I have plenty of material.

I learned about it right away, as I studied the subject a bit before I started singing karaoke. I bought the MTU software suite because it had a key changer and I could burn key-changed tracks to disk. I usually don't do my key-changed songs unless 1) the KJ has software which does key change reliably and 2) they are competent enough to remember to do it, or 3) I can sing to my own disk which has the change burned onto it.

I never try a key-changed song if the host is using Sax & Dotties. 4 times out of 5 the key changer doesn't work even if they think they have operated it.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

As ayounger guy I had a range as wide as the Grand Canyon. In my mid forties I had a bit of a vocal crisis that changed that, and I virtually stopped singing- even for myself at home.

To me keychange was a godsend, and allowed me at least a decent repertoire. I was aware of it almost at it's inception, and aa stated, I m somewhat dependent on it.

Elvis is dropped either 1 or 2 ( depending on young or old Elvis) most others dropped at least one. On key exceptions would be songs like Brandy, You've Lost That Loving Feeling, Anything by Gordon Lightfoot or Montgomery Gentry.

In case you haven't guessed, I lost my high range...

I have keychange requests at every show,( a lot more from woment than men, and strangely enough, most down.

I have a women who sings Bonnie Raitt's Love Sneakin' Up On you down three ( While I can go more than that in either direction, I won't due to the effects on the music) and it's HOT.

I always inform new singers ( or new to me) or remind regulars of the option, in hopes that it will widen their choices and keep them from getting repetitious.

While I'm sure virtual keychangers can work fine, I noticed that this is not always the case, just like player based changers. Therefore, my preference is a mixer based keychanger.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I used Sax&Dot for years. S&D needed 2 plug-ins to work properly. WinAmp to play the cdg files & Pacemaker to change pitch, tempo & speed. Although S&D has a built-in key changer they’re unreliable if pacemaker is not installed. Not too many Show Presenter users were aware of this. But, I don’t have to worry about that anymore. I changed hosting program couple months ago – Latshaw Karma & never been happier. S&D is so outdated compared to karma.

Some of my singers refuse key change, somehow they have the impression that changing the key up or down will also alter the tempo of the song. They don’t believe me when I say the tempo will stay the same. And by the same token, I can speed-up or slow down the tempo and the song will stay in the same key. They give me this bewildered look & say that’s not even possible.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

I get the tempo thing on occasion and reassure them the tempo is still the same as it's only a digital change, not done by speeding up or slowing down.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

"All our songs are recorded in the original key, if you would like us to change the key in semi-tones for you, please let your host know," scrolls across the bottom of my screen. I don't mention I can change the tempo unless they ask.

I'd never change the key on a singer without their knowledge, but I have been known to play with the tempo to allow a 'less than sober' singer catch up with the tune. I will advise a customer to consider changing the key on occasion, but I wouldn't push the subject, some hate the mere thought of messing with the original track .

I can't remember when I first found out about key changes, but it was probably when I started working for another company and I first got to touch a JVC player. Two of the hosts were also professional singers I imagine they would have encouraged me to change the key on certain tracks.

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

The main people who have asked for it with me are other karaoke hosts. I do have the option on the slips and I have offered it to strugglers but most seem to take it as cheating. For a certain time, I did get requests for tempo changes as a local host was pushing that as an option that I couldn't do it as I am still a disc show.

I use it myself, especially when learning songs. Sometimes after I've done a song for a while I can start doing it in the original key.

My favorite was one singer who would ask for a key change and put on the slips "up two octaves" or "down one octave." Tempting, but I always set if for what I thought she meant and not for what she actually wrote.

I have found that the folks that know about key change are the ones that have been around a while. New folks don't generally know about it. I do announce at the beginning of the show though and I will inquire about keys depending on the song selection. I only use slips at one location and I do have a "Key +/- ______" entry. But that same location is also full of old timers and for the most part they know about key change already.

-Chris

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-Chris

As singer with a capo on my guitar......watch guitar players a little closer on tv.....they use them quite often.
My last post from the other thread sums it up for me....I'll quote it.....be right back

"Funny, even before karaoke programs for the puter, you can go back and the vast majority & even many cheap karaoke players had a key changer.......guess it was/is/and never will be........intended to change the key of a song..... "

That's my general observation as well. When I have hosted a show, I have made mention of the fact that the key can be changed on a song, but most people don't really pay attention to that. They just want to hear their name called to the stage for their turn.

I was pretty fortunate, too, in the key-changing game -- when I was getting snuck into bars to sing karaoke as an 18-year-old in Boston, the main place we frequented had the option of specifying a key change on their slips.

As a working host, I often utilize the key change function. I kind of feel like I have an obligation to sound the best I can, so if I'm unsure about something or I know the limitations I have on any given night, I'll gladly change key on myself. Lately, at one of my more successful shows, the bar owner and I cap things off with "Under Pressure", with me singing the Freddie Mercury part -- while I used to be able to do that crazy climb up the scales Mercury does during the song's climax, I've found myself really straining to hit it lately, so we drop the song down a half step. The high parts are still really high, so it doesn't sacrifice any of the song's inherent theatricality.

I rarely get requested key changes. People know I can do it, but I don't have many regulars who take advantage of it. That's usually because they're either bad singers who aren't going to hit the notes anyway so it doesn't matter, or good ones who can hit the original key effortlessly.

I don't think anyone who knows how it works would recommend a key changer. Changing sound to a digital format is a lossy process. PCM to MP3 is a lossy process. Making FFT approximations necessary for key change based on damaged data is a disaster.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Well I don't know how it works, and since ignorance is bliss...I'll use it, usually 1/2 tone down to get that one note in a song, but never more than a full tone up or down. Furthermore; I'd recommend doing so, to any singer, who wants to do it, simply said, it's what karaoke is all about....



did you check around your ankles?........

I didn't know it even existed until I started posting here. And I've still never tried it, because I'm really not sure how, er, singing actually works. I think if I had a key lowered on a song I knew to bring it into my range better, I'd still end up straining for the higher key and make things sound worse rather than better.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

It sometimes takes a couple times to hear the change in music to learn to readjust. Once you figure that out, you will appreciate it more. I get some people that will have me key change in the middle of a song & get right back on track. Your ear does play into factor!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I completely agree.

When I started karaoke in Nov '09, I was using S&D. I thought it was a great program at first. I kept using it until I was hosting a very important karaoke contest at a casino in 2011. During the contest, WinAmp "skipped" a few times during a few singer's performances. As a kj host, I was very embarassed. I soon started looking into other hosts and settled on Karma. Wow! Karma was such a HUGE improvement over S&D. I was in KJ heaven with Karma. I still use Karma today and have no plans on switching.

Karma just seemed like a natural evolution from S&D. In other words, if there is anyone out there reading this that is currently using S&D, give Karma a try. You'll probably be very pleasantly surprised.

To the OP Questions -

As a KJ - - I announce I can Key Change at every show. I have a number of regulars that ask for key changes on certain songs. They sing karaoke regularly and have been around the area for a while. Anytime someone tells me they like a song but it may be too high or too low, I suggest a key change. I only use paper slips at one venue and I print the "Key +/-____" on the slips and announce I can key change there too.

As a Singer - - I discovered key change in the mid 90's when I sang "Aerosmith's - Dream On" on a dare. After singing it, the KJ called me over and asked me how high I could sing. I didn't really know so he asked if I could come back the next week during the sound check to try singing the song UP. I did and we went up 2-3 before my voice broke. (Those days are long over.....I have not even attempted that song in several years now)

-Chris

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-Chris