Karaoke Forums

That article was 7 years ago. Nothing has happened since, so I doubt anything will. It's just a shame that these entities are always thinking of ways to screw the public and take things away from them. And exactly how would they enforce such a thing?? Would they go from door to door checking computers and draws for files and recorded CD/Rs?? REALLY? EVERY cd I own is on my computer. Has been for years. I use my computer to fill my iPods, and I use my computer as a jukebox. I would like to see them come into my home and tell me I am doing anything wrong.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

For the same use as the originals- hence, "backups".

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

... Most of you have been down this road but just figured I might throw it out there from my past experiences. It's a long post and if you decide to skip it then skip it... but again, it's just from my OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

...A few years ago, before I went digital, I had concerns about playing Filler/DJ Music and Karaoke Music in a Commercial Venue off of a laptop. From most of the people I chatted with (including other DJs, KJs, Karaoke Music Sellers and Karaoke Manufacturers) they all said you need to be 1:1 compliant in the event you're ever questioned. Soon after that I went digital with Karaoke but was still concerned about my Filler/DJ Music.

...So, around that same time I thought about buying a subscription to a Legal Music Club (monthly hits put on CDs and mailed to you). Even called a few places up and spoke with some reps. After that I decided to do some more research on the legalities of playing ripped/copied music in a Commercial Venue off of a laptop or any other digital device player. So I did a search and ended up at the RIAA Site. Read up on the laws posted there and was still somewhat confused even more, so I called them up. Was transferred to a man named Bruce (I think?). At that time, he had some title such as U.S. Lead Investigator Agent for the RIAA. We chatted for awhile about legal music sites, legal downloads, transferring music cd's to hard drives, etc. for commercial use. And no, I don't have a recording of that conversation or an official email from him for my records but even he said some things that were conflicting to the laws that are written on the pages at their site. Here's basically what he said:

...1) Buy/Obtain legal music from legal sources (Online, Brick & Mortar Stores, Secondary Market, etc.)
...2) You can rip,transfer and play music from Original CDs on a laptop or any other digital device as long as you keep the Original CDs in your possession.
...3) There are legal Monthly Music Subscription Sites out there but check with us if you ever have any questions about these sites.
...4) Don't ever make copies for others (selling, sharing or uploading)
...5) You must use the 1:1 compliance rule for each system you run.
...6) If you choose to purchase downloads from Legal Music Sites, keep your receipts on record...*Now, I brought this subject matter up because all the sites seem to state "Not For Commercial Use....Personal Use Only." Bruce said that most people don't pay attention to the fine print but if you did use them for commercial use and the site/s found out about it, THAT PROBABLY the only thing these site/s would do to you would be to cancel your subscription. He also mentioned that he's never heard of the copyright holder filing a lawsuit against a consumer for commercial use of a legally downloaded track BECAUSE the customer did purchase a legal track. To him, it was like cutting off the hand that feeds you and that wouldn't look good in the public's eyes. To the best of my memory he never mentioned anything about a special license required for legal online sellers offering music for commercial use.

...We even chatted about karaoke and from what I gather, ALMOST all of the same rules apply and yes they(RIAA) go after illegal music sellers, illegal downloaders/uploaders, illegal DJs and even KJs if they're caught up in the crossfire.

...A few years ago, I remember watching a Las Vegas Karaoke Convention starring the Big Three Karaoke Manufacturers. One particular Karaoke Manufacturer stated that BY LAW, they CANNOT give you permission to play commercially off any COPY of the ORIGINAL CDGs (such as hard drives, flash drives, sd cards or burnt discs) but they could issue you a "Covenant Not To Sue" after the KJ completed a successful audit. So, even if you elect to do this, the Karaoke Manufacturer can't save you from the copyright holders because you're still playing commercially off of a copy which, by U.S. Law, is still illegal. But it does protect you from the Karaoke Manufacturers that are going after Trademark Infringements of their product.

...From my understanding of the laws supplied by RIAA, is that any KJ, DJ or combo of the two, that plays off of anything other than the Original Manufacturers' Media (Original meaning cassette, vinyl, 8-Track, CD, CDG, SD Card, etc.) could still be sued by the original copy rights holder of the music. Which puts most of us in that category according to the U.S. Laws that are currently on the books (not talking about those who have illegally obtained loaded drives or discs without the manufacturer's originals and using them commercially)....HOWEVER, it does appear that the law enforcement has taken a back seat to enforcing those laws, for the most part. But those laws are still on the books from what I gather. They just haven't caught up to technology.

...Guess you can judge for yourself or hire an IP Lawyer. Do I personally think a copyright holder would go after you for playing from a copy of the original? Possibly but if you produced the original or showed proof of purchase (for downloads), I doubt it. Here's the RIAA Link (at the bottom is the laws for copying CDs) . It contains some useful information and does provide a contact phone number if you wish to call:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php? ... ne_the_law

I would agree with the "purchasing the contents, not the container" concept if it weren't for things like picture discs (vinyl) and for some very nice artwork on CD's. The only place that artwork exists is on the media itself and people do purchase these kids of discs for what is ON them as well as what is IN them.



-Chris

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-Chris

Which is not the case and, anyway, that would fit in the collectibles "folder". Unless, of course, I buy a SC CD signed by Mr. Harrington himself assuming that such a thing will increase its value by thousands, which I'm afraid not.

And still, I can make a copy and show it and say I have it and prove it, because i've got the original. It's like plenty of museums out there, they show a copy (a very good one, of course) while keeping the original safe and sound under 10 ft of concrete.

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http://youtube.com/tricky2k

I have an SC8125 Disc Signed by Kurt Slep. If I ever decide to sell it, will see what kind of value it adds (or takes away).

-Chris

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-Chris

That is the infamous "illegal" disc I have read about on here, right? If so, then one who might believe in indicators might come to some interesting conclusions about someone who would produce that, and then actually sign it like some sort of celebrity...

Take it to the Pawn Stars & see.......

ps......just like to mention one thing I've concluded about law. When it comes down to it, Lawyers create & dictate the law. When someone involved in the process of forming a new law, proposes wording, that is highly accurate(black & white), all the lawyers must add their own wordy minipulations to cloud it up. If not, most of them would be out of a job......

Any original 8125 that is out there is not "illegal." Any disputes that may have arisen over the licensing have been fully resolved, royalties paid, and sales authorized. There wasn't even a lawsuit over it.

Johnny and here I thought that in the USA that Congress and Senate enacted laws and in Canada the Parliament and Senate, not lawyers, though there may be some elected members who are/were lawyers.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Yeah, no lobbies, no industries, no pressure at all, just the congressmen and senators elected by the mighty people, just by them and for them only.

I saw that movie.

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http://youtube.com/tricky2k

SELL NOW while there are still suckers to buy CD+G's!

They won't ever start enforcing those laws for playing music commercially. It would truly be a public relations nightmare. They already blackened their eyes with prosecuting for downloading because they went after regular people instead of big players who were selling bootleg copies of CDs. If they went after DJs they would destroy the music industry, completely. Good thing they don't do audits. If they ever tried auditing my collection it would take them at least a full day if not longer. I have been collecting CDs since 1991, and I still have some from back then. I remember the first two CDs I ever bought. They were Presto from Rush and the Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe self titled CD. BTW, thank you for sharing this research.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Not quite. Settlements were paid, which relieved SC of further liability, but sales of this disc were never authorized. Paying a settlement is not the same as authorizing / licensing sales.

Feel free to post documentation of the licensed production from the Eagles.... That "100%" is dropping like a rock.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Even BC - Studio Manager at SC stated that all licensing on 8125 was paid up 'to the point of what was sold'. They had to pull the remainder & not sell anymore, but what was sold was authorized. This was stated YEARS ago on SC board.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

This is 100% accurate.

The sales that were made were authorized. Just because you want something to be false doesn't make it so, Joe.

remeber Tim, I said I have concluded, which means it's my opinion. You know, I've heard many lawyer jokes, and the vast majority came from my firends that are lawyers. I'm a nobody, but you'd be shocked at how high up some of my lawyer friends and associates have landed. People tend to elect lawyers, and if an official isn't a lawyer, he has access to many, they are on the payroll, and they will earn their money. I don't even want to get into the lobbiests, but the bottom line is, it's just my opinion.

Okay - Thread is way off the rails. Let's try to get back to the OP's topic.....

-Chris

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-Chris

...Ok, well let me throw the following at ya
...Nothing personal here but just wanted to try to go back to Chris's original post here, for a few minutes, with this response. I know most of his scenarios were in reference to Manufacturers' Originals and the use of Backups in Commercial Settings.

...For anyone who doesn't know (most here do), Stellar Records (part of Pop Hits and some other represented Karaoke Brands) offered a CAP Program, starting a couple years back, to any KJ that had acquired any of their music illegally on a hard drive (knowingly, unknowingly or even scammed by a seller). I don't know how many KJs took advantage of the program but Chris did and has written about his experiences, here at this forum and at some other places on the net. To the best of my knowledge, he is in the clear and in good standing with Stellar. I do applaud his efforts to operate his business legally and his support to the Industry as a whole. Never the less, here is the link to some of his experiences with Stellar:
http://afairrotation.wordpress.com/2011 ... p-program/

...Personally I don't know what Stellar requires from someone who wants or wanted to purchase a CAP Program. Do they require the owner to provide a list of the tracks on that drive? Do they require a picture/s of that drive along with Make, Model and Serial Number? Do they send you a special sticker for that drive? If running multiple systems, can you break up the Stellar tracks from that drive and dedicate them to multiple drives? Finally, when you no longer want that CAP Approved Stellar Drive, can you resale that drive legally like an Approved Chartbuster Hard Drive or SD Card ?

...I'm guessing he is allowed to make a backup of that drive, such as we do with CDGs in order to run a show off of a laptop. Chris has also stated that he runs more than one system and I believe he has stated that not all systems have the same music on them (the hard drives). I'm guessing that he has only one CAP Approved Stellar Drive? So I'm assuming that he's elected to copy that music over to another drive, a drive that also contains other Karaoke Music that he uses in one of his shows. Now with that in mind, what would happen if one day, from out of the blue, he grabbed that ole CAP Approved Stellar Drive (remember, this is his Original), plugged it into his laptop and found out the hard drive was dead?

...Would he:
#1) Have the right to play off of a Backup Drive when his Original (CAP Approved Stellar Drive) has been Rendered Unplayable? ....or
#2) Have to delete all of his Stellar Music from any and all backup drives? .....or
#3) Have to go out and purchase as many Stellar CDGs to match his drive and delete the rest? ....or
#4) Call up Stellar and ask about a replacement program? Keep in mind, there's a chance that many of the tracks on that dead drive might not be available anymore through Stellar or any other outlet....or
#5) Find some illegal hard drive seller, buy an illegal hard drive that contains those Stellar Tracks and move on?

...Was just curious, that's why I ask.

Yes, Lon is 100% correct- I agree.

However, SC limited their liability after the fact in regard to the SC8125 discs already distributed, never at the time of sale. Liability limitation, not licensing. The SC8125 discs were not licensed at the time of sale.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so, Jim.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."