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I have not seen it worded quite this way, but it would almost stand to reason that this could be the crux of the whole situation: If it WERE to be deemed within fair use rights to make AND use a backup in a 1:1 ratio on one's media of choice, and it is the position of your ASCAP, BMI, et. al. to give authorization for public performance, then isn't it safe to conclude that not only can any manufacturer not "authorize" for commercial performance, then they cannot "de-authorize" it either???

The term is meant to be ONLY Disc Based. Whether it be an Original disc or a Back-up copy of that disc, the KJ is only operating with the use of Discs and no other format.

There have been no legal issues made against KJs who have purchased Original Manufacturer issued discs, and made 1 back-up copy of them onto a blank disc. There also has been no legal issues made against a KJ who chooses to use those back-up discs at a show instead of the originals (as long as the originals are not being used at another show at the same time (in other words, multi-rigging with just 1 set of owned discs)).

As for me personally, I have a back-up copy for almost all of my original CDGs (there were about 6 that I could not copy due to how they were originally formatted on the disc). I choose to use my originals at a show and keep the back-up copies at home. When I have an original that looks like it can't be used anymore, I switch it with my back-up copy, and I make a new back-up copy to have in case anything happens to that one. I choose to use my originals, because my discs are displayed out in the open. People walking by can see them, and one can tell (especially a fellow KJ) the difference (for the most part) between an original store-bought disc, and one that has a label slapped on it (even one that is scanned from the original label). If you look down at my discs and (maybe) see 1 disc with a home-made label on it, and all the others nice and shiny and metallic-like, you aren't going to assume anything; however, if you see a whole slew of discs with labels slapped on, you might assume that the KJ is using copies of everything (and maybe obtained them illegally). Call it paranoia, but it's my choice to work off of my originals unless I have to use a back-up disc.

You don't have much choice, otherwise you couldn't play your downloads, right? Well, I guess you could if you wanted to bring in a laptop and get a software player.

Again, is this definition of the acronym, assuming it is the "accepted" use of it, technically correct and/or misleading? This generalized definition can include EVERY disc one might get into their posession. I truly am not intending to pick at this, but if an acronym is going to be used to represent a certain sect of people, those who view it from the outside looking in have the right to understand just what that entails.



BTW, did you just admit that, at least one time in the past, you have had an original, a back-up, AND an additional back-up??? Be careful.....

Also, it was already established years ago that even Sound Choice was OK with a KJ making a back-up copy of an original disc, and using that disc in place of the original as long as it was the only copy being used.


I think that might be a "grey area." I'm still only using 1 copy of a disc (whether it be an original or a back-up copy). The back-up of the back-up copy is to have in case something happens where the 1st back-up is no longer playable. It's no different than all of the Legit KJs who have copied their original discs to a HD, and have made a copy of the HD as a back-up. As long as only 1 copy is in use (whether it be original discs or copies on a HD), it should be OK.

Now, as for the use of different media... ie an original disc copied to a HD, that is what Sound Choice has issue with. As far as I have known, Sound Choice didn't/doesn't have issue with the use of a back-up disc (since it is the same media as the original disc).

Mr. Cueball, I am sure someone in here might appreciate the detailed, yet much-repeated, thoughts you have on this subject, which you have worded as if to respond to my posts. My intention, however, has been to invoke different directions of thought, not encourage repititious restatement of a singular inflexible position. A different direction such as this: It might be prudent for concerned individuals to look beyond what is "OK" to any one manufacturer. There are more than likely other determining factors at play.

Sorry for any confusion...

sorry Cue, your permission has been revoked. better ditch those backups or pay your $150.00 audit fee.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

That's a fair question, Do. In my case, I guess I'm 99.62% ODB. I had about 7 Party Tyme discs - an open page of my binder- melt up due to a mishap with acetone,( I still have the originals) and those discs have been replaced by backups. However, since virtually every other disc of about 1800 that I carry ( I actually own about 2500) is original, the 7 equal about 0.38% of the total, and I feel comfortable calling myself an ODB host.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not sure where this quote came from but I remember the exact context that that quote was made back on JOLT in 98. Kurt had made a statement something to the fact that if he walked into a club and saw an entire binder of burns - he'd assume piracy, if he walked into a club & saw a couple burns here & there among all the orignal discs, he'd assume backup and probably wouldn't have an issue of it. However as i've always thought, policies change over the years with ANY company, why should SC be any different in the way they view backups? This was WAY before the advent of computer piracy killing all the industry on both the manus AND kj side!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

But I'm not dead yet!

When I see a KJ using discs of any kind I just think.....dinosaur. Welcome to 1997!

-Chris

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-Chris

When I see a PC based host I think: Here's one of the folks that used a PC (found in most households) in public, along with MP3s- causing everyone's uncle Lou to think they could be a Karaoke Host just by buying 2 speakers and a mic, and downloading music from pirate sites- causing a virtual explosion in both piracy and unskilled krappy-oke shows. List under: How A Karaoke Host Can Shoot Themselves In The Foot, And The Industry As Well.

Welcome To 2013!

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Well, since my poll indicates (so far) that a grand total of three GEM users here on a forum of 16,000 ( approx. 0.0188%) have been uncoerced, it would seem that YOUR statement is false- once again making kind of a goof of your "100% true" statements. YOU made it up.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'm not a credit-grabber, but in this case I will make an exception, since- unless someone can find a previous user, I was the one who originated "ODB"- and MY definition was ORIGINAL disc based. I also used OMD, as in Original Manufacturers' disc.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

You have to remember about 80% of our users are spam (too much to count, but even when removed, they still count as member total unfortuantely) & 1 time shots that NEVER come back or just plain no longer active!!!! Take that into consideration!!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

There are probably also a ton of guests that probably are KJs who never signed up to post but read every day. Something like that poll could be enough to draw them into signing up and posting, given they did buy the GEM on their own and without being pushed to do so. People who bought the GEM on their own seem to be very defensive of the GEM, and I don't blame them. It would be a great deal if not for (what I perceive to be) all the strings.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I'm having a hard time believing that you think this is actually a logical conclusion, but if you do, it explains a lot about who you are and what your intelligence level is.

Joe - I believe all of the GEM licensees are listed on the SC page. I do not believe all of them frequent these forums though. You have proven nothing.

-Chris

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-Chris

Well.... since I started hosting well after the piracy issue was firmly established and since I spent about $4000 on my initial equipment purchase, and then immediately purchased a CAP agreement from Stellar, and immediately started buying legitimate discs on the free market and hosted shows with other KJ's prior to hosting my own solo shows, you can't dump me in that category.

-Chris

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-Chris