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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:14 pm 
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rickgood wrote:
Sometimes no amount of eq can make somebody sound good.


This is true, as my singing demonstrates weekly.

I tell you what, though--I have serious love for the really bad singers. They sometimes bring the best energy and excitement. Whenever people at the bar start getting snide, I like to remind them that it's easier to respect someone with the stones to get up and do it than the guy sitting at the bar who doesn't.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:42 pm 
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kjflorida wrote:
As with anything in this country there can be regional differences so your experience may vary.

As already cited in my post's response to yours before.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:44 am 
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rotations have dropped from twenty-plus singers to rotations of five to ten. And that makes the entire process itself seem less fun and exciting, because without the crowd, the energy of the room starts falling.


This goes both ways, though. I have lost plenty of singers to less crowded bars because they are more concerned with singing more often than the energy of a packed show. Generally, the 21-30s singers want the excitement and energy, the 40+ singers perfer my slower nights. I have plenty of Wednesday night regulars that will set one foot in the bar and leave if it's a busy night, and will only stay if it's slow.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:19 am 
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TopherM wrote:
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rotations have dropped from twenty-plus singers to rotations of five to ten. And that makes the entire process itself seem less fun and exciting, because without the crowd, the energy of the room starts falling.


This goes both ways, though. I have lost plenty of singers to less crowded bars because they are more concerned with singing more often than the energy of a packed show. Generally, the 21-30s singers want the excitement and energy, the 40+ singers perfer my slower nights. I have plenty of Wednesday night regulars that will set one foot in the bar and leave if it's a busy night, and will only stay if it's slow.

I have experienced that as well, people leaving because the rotations are too long had 32 total singers overall last night with an 1 1/2-2 wait at any giving time, or it's too crowded and head for the dead dive down the street. Then complain to me the next time I see them that they like to be able to sing, but the sound sucks and they don't have anything they want to sing that I do - and these are supposedly 100-150k hard drive users that 'have any song'.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:59 am 
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that is another symptom of over-saturation. The singers have been trained that any wait over 1/2 hour is "too long"


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
TopherM wrote:
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rotations have dropped from twenty-plus singers to rotations of five to ten. And that makes the entire process itself seem less fun and exciting, because without the crowd, the energy of the room starts falling.


This goes both ways, though. I have lost plenty of singers to less crowded bars because they are more concerned with singing more often than the energy of a packed show. Generally, the 21-30s singers want the excitement and energy, the 40+ singers perfer my slower nights. I have plenty of Wednesday night regulars that will set one foot in the bar and leave if it's a busy night, and will only stay if it's slow.

I have experienced that as well, people leaving because the rotations are too long had 32 total singers overall last night with an 1 1/2-2 wait at any giving time, or it's too crowded and head for the dead dive down the street. Then complain to me the next time I see them that they like to be able to sing, but the sound sucks and they don't have anything they want to sing that I do - and these are supposedly 100-150k hard drive users that 'have any song'.


ditto. the part that makes me chuckle is after they complain that the host sucks, the sound sucks, the selection sucks, they still go back over and over when the nights are busy. somehow it's better to sing many songs you don't want with an a$$hole barely running a crap system than to sing what you want with a nice host and a good sound. :withstupid:
i will never understand that part.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:04 am 
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8) I have been in the business now for over 18 years, the basic truth is real singers want to sing. They like the rotation to allow them a chance to perform every 30 minutes. They start to lose interest if the wait is over an hour. Just a basic fact of the business. I don't personally believe that the pirates have hurt my business one bit, nor has not using SC hurt it either. The one thing especially here in California that has hurt the industry is the collapse of the real estate market, and the construction jobs that went with it. Former workers are now taking minimum wage jobs, and both spouses have to work the support their respective families. They have little disposable income to spend on entertainment. That leaves my target market the baby boomers, the folks in my age group, with the bulk of the disposable income to spend on going out. I have a niche market since I specialize in a Golden Oldies Show. I don't need to purchase new material since my patrons only want to sing the old standards they were raised with. When looking at the success or failure of a show the host has to look into themselves. A bigger threat to established hosts seems to be the multi-rigger, who under cuts the established regular and hires a college student to run their equipment.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:23 am 
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The Lone Ranger wrote:
That leaves my target market the baby boomers, the folks in my age group, with the bulk of the disposable income to spend on going out. I have a niche market since I specialize in a Golden Oldies Show. I don't need to purchase new material since my patrons only want to sing the old standards they were raised .

I have said those same words many times on this forum. It is sure that the "boomers" are coming, and I too will not need any new music to fill the house with. I am in semi-retirement at the moment, but that could all change as the atmosphere improves.
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
ditto. the part that makes me chuckle is after they complain that the host sucks, the sound sucks, the selection sucks, they still go back over and over when the nights are busy. somehow it's better to sing many songs you don't want with an a$$hole barely running a crap system than to sing what you want with a nice host and a good sound. I will never understand that part.

Those are the most disturbing facts about the karaoke world. It almost makes you throw your hands up in the air and say out loud "why am I trying so hard...because it just doesn't seem to matter"


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:59 pm 
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TopherM wrote:
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rotations have dropped from twenty-plus singers to rotations of five to ten. And that makes the entire process itself seem less fun and exciting, because without the crowd, the energy of the room starts falling.


This goes both ways, though. I have lost plenty of singers to less crowded bars because they are more concerned with singing more often than the energy of a packed show. Generally, the 21-30s singers want the excitement and energy, the 40+ singers perfer my slower nights. I have plenty of Wednesday night regulars that will set one foot in the bar and leave if it's a busy night, and will only stay if it's slow.


That's pretty much the only crowd out here, sadly.

I think the singer's ideal out here is the short rotation/large audience of drinkers, but that tends to be a rare combination in the area.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:26 pm 
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mrmarog wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
ditto. the part that makes me chuckle is after they complain that the host sucks, the sound sucks, the selection sucks, they still go back over and over when the nights are busy. somehow it's better to sing many songs you don't want with an a$$hole barely running a crap system than to sing what you want with a nice host and a good sound. I will never understand that part.

Those are the most disturbing facts about the karaoke world. It almost makes you throw your hands up in the air and say out loud "why am I trying so hard...because it just doesn't seem to matter"

But it does matter. For those few that want to sing alot, they can sing down the street with the crap. We are obviously doing something right if we are that packed to begin with.
On the flipside, I have one singer that likes to sing alot, BUT if it's a slow night when he CAN sing alot, he'll turn around and walk out because there is no one there to 'hear' him. He wants a crowded house with little singers - that just doesn't happen. Anything over 10 he feels is too much.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
On the flipside, I have one singer that likes to sing alot, BUT if it's a slow night when he CAN sing alot, he'll turn around and walk out because there is no one there to 'hear' him. He wants a crowded house with little singers - that just doesn't happen. Anything over 10 he feels is too much.


Oh, karaoke. You are a cruel, cruel mistress.

Personally, I'm good with--and consider the ideal--once an hour. I couldn't imagine rotations so short where I was singing every half-hour, because I think I'd get bored with hearing myself.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:18 pm 
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NoShameKaraoke wrote:
Lonman wrote:
On the flipside, I have one singer that likes to sing alot, BUT if it's a slow night when he CAN sing alot, he'll turn around and walk out because there is no one there to 'hear' him. He wants a crowded house with little singers - that just doesn't happen. Anything over 10 he feels is too much.
Oh, karaoke. You are a cruel, cruel mistress. Personally, I'm good with--and consider the ideal--once an hour. I couldn't imagine rotations so short where I was singing every half-hour, because I think I'd get bored with hearing myself.

In my area once an hour is very acceptable, and once every 1 1/2 hrs is OK, especially for the "Early Birds", because they might get to sing three songs. I run a VERY fast show and we do A LOT of short songs (right Bazza) so anything up to about 25-26 singers makes this happen.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
But it does matter. For those few that want to sing alot, they can sing down the street with the crap. We are obviously doing something right if we are that packed to begin with.
On the flipside, I have one singer that likes to sing alot, BUT if it's a slow night when he CAN sing alot, he'll turn around and walk out because there is no one there to 'hear' him. He wants a crowded house with little singers - that just doesn't happen. Anything over 10 he feels is too much.


you are right, we are running 30+ on a wednesday for a reason. i do throw up my hands sometimes though and wonder why i try so hard. too many people.....i'm sorry, i will try to be less successful in the future :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:50 am 
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NoShameKaraoke wrote:


I think the singer's ideal out here is the short rotation/large audience of drinkers, but that tends to be a rare combination in the area.


This is something I was cultivating and it was starting to work. I used to spend my time talking to the singers. We started to get groups who just wanted some drinks and listen so I started spending time with them. I'd find out songs they wanted to hear and find someone that could do it. It was a win win. The audience got songs just for them and the singers sang songs people in the audience were in to. I think it can work...

I could always spot the antsy singers during the stretches where we had the huge rotations. I would talk with them and offer to start 30 minutes early. Some took me up on it and some didn't but at least I found a way to offer them more songs which put it back on them if they didn't come in early. If they complained I'd throw my arms out and tell them I could have gotten them two more songs if they had been here at 9:30.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:06 am 
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MrBoo wrote:
NoShameKaraoke wrote:


I think the singer's ideal out here is the short rotation/large audience of drinkers, but that tends to be a rare combination in the area.


This is something I was cultivating and it was starting to work. I used to spend my time talking to the singers. We started to get groups who just wanted some drinks and listen so I started spending time with them. I'd find out songs they wanted to hear and find someone that could do it. It was a win win. The audience got songs just for them and the singers sang songs people in the audience were in to. I think it can work...

I could always spot the antsy singers during the stretches where we had the huge rotations. I would talk with them and offer to start 30 minutes early. Some took me up on it and some didn't but at least I found a way to offer them more songs which put it back on them if they didn't come in early. If they complained I'd throw my arms out and tell them I could have gotten them two more songs if they had been here at 9:30.


8) A similar thing happened when I first started in the business, I was working at a club where I was told karaoke wouldn't work, it was just for drinkers. I went out to various shows met singers let them know I had a venue with no waiting, I especially focused on a group of singers that loved to sing four of them. I set the show up on Sunday afternoon since I didn't want to be taking away any other hosts group, that would not be kosher. Nobody was doing Sunday afternoons and it became a big hit the singers showed up and the drinkers came in and everyone was happy. That show is still going today but I no longer do it, since I save Sundays for rest now. Have a blessed day.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:57 pm 
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1.Saturation of D.J.s and K.J.s--instead of thousands for music and karaoke--maybe 400.00
the average thief can hang on part time because no money invested

2.Average consumer just assumes when they see a computer that the music was downloaded free

3.So many singers now are showing up just with name and song--no need to look in a songbook when the average pirate has 117000 songs

4.I think before this gets cleared up we will have a D.J. or K.J. on every corner

5.This same stolen music problem is even larger in the wedding D.J. industry

6.Most orginizations-venders-publications-speakers will not touch this topic because so many of their target audience are in the pirate area.

7.Only occupation that I can think of that has such a saturation of stolen product


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:03 am 
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rickgood wrote:
Pirate does not always equal bad host - there are some very good karaoke hosts who either chose not to pay for their music because nobody was policing it, or because they took the approach "everybody else is doing it, I might as well do it too" Some guys I know of fall into the later niche, but are now paying for their content and have very successful shows.

Although my company doesn't do any public shows now, I cannot count the times I've had venue owners state that they don't want karaoke because either the staff hates it or they feel it brings in the wrong crowd to their place. Don't rule out how much the economy has affected the business as well. Without disposable income, folks stay at home. We've had to decrease the rate at several of our trivia shows because the numbers just don't work out. Same with karaoke.



Gotta disagree with you Rick. Anybody that is practicing pirating is a bad host! Yeah, maybe they have good equipment and a personality however they are a host, and they are bad for not following the rules. Plus it gives some singers/customers the wrong idea, that more songs is better.

I do understand what you are saying however.

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