Karaoke Forums

Posted April 1, 2013:


Posted April 1, 2013:



Posted April 1, 2013:


Posted April 1, 2013:





To Mr. Harrington....

Really???? And what happened to this (quoted from March 31, 2012)???








Besides KaraokeJerry (posted on March 12, 2012)


Who else is an ODB KJ, AND is listed as being Certified in SC's website?

At one time all certifications were offered free of charge. Things changed for computerized hosts in that regard. It will be interesting to see how many ODB respond however.

As far as audits being free at one time (for the computerized hosts), that was true, and, as you said, things changed for them. That free offer for Computerized KJs was on the table for quite some time (and several of you were able to reap the advantages of it). Where was that offer for the ODB KJs?

If an offer was made, it was made in secrecy (to what amounts to be a very small minority), and did not appear to happen (except for 1 person - KaraokeJerry). It strikes me as funny that Mr. Harrington made an announcement (in this Forum) on March 31, 2012 (see my previous post with the dates and quotes) that they (SC) will be adding ODB KJs to the Certification page (as in, not a done deal yet), and yet KaraokeJerry posted 2 weeks before, that he was an ODB KJ who was already listed in their site as being Certified. It seems that knowledge of this Certification offer was kept in secret, and never presented to us (ODB KJs) until we started posting our disdain in this Forum. Shortly after that revelation, the offer was made, and then it was back-peddled, and we were told it would happen soon. Well, soon has been over 1 year now. What happened to it, and who are these people that are ODB KJs (whom Mr. Harrington refered to)?

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this for it to stick.

Certification requires, at a minimum, that someone from SC examine an operator's holdings to verify that they comply with SC's policies. Sometimes that can be done remotely through a videoconferencing system, but there is a significant amount of time required to complete most audits. As a result, SC charges a small fee to recoup a portion of the costs associated with the program.

Last year, we had plans to set up a semi-automated certification system that would streamline the process and allow more audits to be completed. Since examination of the discs, books, and hardware is all that's required for an ODB host, that certification system would have allowed ODB hosts to complete the certification process online without a lot of oversight by SC personnel, just a brief review.

HOWEVER, we ran into some technological problems with the system that we could not see an immediate fix for. Because we have limited personnel available--there are exactly five people who work at SC on a full-time basis--this item has not been materially advanced in the last year. It is simply not high enough on the priority list to justify the time and money required to complete it at this time. It is still in our plans.

ODB hosts can be certified just like anyone else. An ODB host who wants certification needs to contact SC for that. There is a fee, but feel free to negotiate if you think the fee is too high in your situation. We are not intentionally depriving ODB hosts of access to the certification system.

Also, feel free to complain all you want about the lack of a free option. Lord knows nothing has stopped the computer-based hosts from complaining about the audit fee. But don't pretend there isn't an option for you. There is.

Don't count me as one complaining it's not free. It is just that the last I heard you hadn't gotten a disc host program in place yet.

So, now you're saying that there IS a Certification Process in effect for ODB KJs??? It looks like 6 weeks ago, you posted that a Certification Process has not yet been set up. When did this suddenly come to pass???

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27290&start=20 - Posted Feb. 19, 2013:


Which is it??? Either you (SC) are working on it, or a Certification process is already in place for the ODB KJ? It can't be both.

Why not just call Sound Choice directly since they would b the ones offering the cert, not Harrington?

-Chris

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-Chris

And, since there are several others here (in this Forum) that are concerned about the same thing, why doesn't Mr. Harrington just ask Kurt to post a direct answer here (for all to see)? Mr. Harrington seems to be the Mouthpiece here for SC, and Kurt has been known to post in this Forum (quite some time ago). Maybe Mr. Harrington can contact Kurt, and ask him to take some time out of his schedule to respond to all of us collectively.

Or....you could call, get the info, and post it here for everyone. It is you that want the certification and the listing on the site. And it is also pretty obvious that Harrington, in spite of his frequent posting, has other things he is responsible for. He is legal council, not sales support.

-Chris

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-Chris

I have called and been told I have to shift first. My understanding was they were trying to work out the bugs but hadn't come up with a system yet. I know some of the disc hosts that are certified became so through actual visits to their show. So I'm not sure if they have a remote type system in place.

Chris, you have asked plenty of questions to manus here yourself.

I understand your frustration, Cue, but I don't think anything diabolical is afoot. I hope things are worked out before it actually becomes an issue. We can show venues our discs for one thing if anyone has an issue.

MONEY!!! It all comes down to MONEY!!! SC will squeeze every KJ out here until they all have paid some kind of fee to them. Just wait till the day that they say "NO ONE can use our material for commercial use without paying us to do so!", even playing an original disc and just showing the logo will get you in hot water if you haven't paid your pound of flesh!

Just why is this the only company on the planet that is doing this?
AH come on now don't say it's because Pirates ruined you business.
Pirates copy more movies and distribute them much more than your business and it seems that the movie industry hasn't gone out of business.
Pirates copy more REAL music and distribute it and yet the artists and recording companies are still in business.
While I DO NOT condone Piracy it is but a drop in the bucket compared to "GOOD BUSINESS SENSE", which I think SC lost somewhere along the way!

Phew rant ended

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I think this is a good example of my failing to be absolutely precise on occasion and you reading into it more than what I meant.

As an ODB host, you can get certified through normal channels. That has always been the case, and there have been several operators who have done that. However, there is a cost, to which some ODB hosts have objected--and I think they have a point. If an ODB host is using the product exactly as intended, SC should not and does not want more money from him for use of the product.

I will repeat again: The ODB host is free to operate using original discs without fear of (a) being sued by SC for using his original discs or (b) having his venue sued for employing him. No certification is needed. By contrast, a computer-based host does need to be certified to be certain that he won't be sued, because of the media shift.

However, ODB hosts may want to appear on the "certified" list. If an ODB host is to be "certified" as such, there is a need, through the certification process, for SC to examine the operation to make sure that the ODB host is, in fact, an ODB host. There is a cost associated with that. We are trying to establish a reliable method that will reduce or substantially eliminate that cost so that the ODB host doesn't have to pay anything. We're not there yet.

Who did you talk to? Did you explain to them that you are NOT a computer operated KJ? Did you tell them that you only operate by using discs?




Chris, what is your problem? You've already suggested to me once about what action you feel I should take, and I replied back to you as to why I choose not to take that advice. Unless you have a new suggestion, since this does not concern or affect you, why don't you just stay out of it?

And, just to elaborate on your last suggestion...

I want the the response to come directly from them, and NOT through an interpretation of what I may have heard in a phone conversation. Let them post a clear and concise response, so that I can not be accused of misinterpreting what was said, and then writing it incorrectly (like that's never happened with any of us here... Riiiight).

No Sound Choice employee has posted here since I have been on the forums. With respect to Mr. Harrington, he is not a Sound Choice employee, he is hired council. I commend him for trying to somewhat manage the relationship between the outside world and Sound Choice, but that is not his job.

When I wanted to get certified, I did not call Harrington. I called Sound Choice. You will ultimately have to do the same. My suggestion was simply to save yourself some time and mis-interpretation by going directly to the people that can answer your questions and make it happen.

The thread is two days old and you could have resolved it with a phone call.

-Chris

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-Chris

@ Chris: "Sound Choice" AKA Kurt Slep posted in legalities section on Jan 27,2013 & Feb 23, 2013. He is still watching.

Sorry. I missed those.

I don't think it is an unreasonable on my part to note that Kurt/Sound Choice may be watching, but he/they aren't really participating in the conversation here.

I suppose what I am really trying to say is this - If you want answers, go get them from the source. Don't wait for them to come to you.

-Chris

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-Chris

Again, Chris, in this case the source has been giving out conflicting answers. I don't want to make a big thing of it because until there is an awareness in my area it isn't pressing. I had just originally wanted to do it to wave it in a few local faces and show support for being legit. Last year I had the money to do it. Right now taxes will come first.

In the meantime I have enough resources to show the legalities on my own. My only gripe would be if there were suits in this area and a pirate bought a Gem and got boosted on a list as being more legal then me.

If I recall at one point last year when I was told one thing and then was later told another that not all of the employees had been brought up to date yet. So please allow that it isn't for lack of trying to contact SC. As said, their priorities are with the lawsuits and the new music right now. But in this case, it isn't another opportunity for you to stick it to the disc hosts. I HAVE called/emailed before on this and been told that if I want to be certified to start ripping.

And why do you care, anyway? Are you thinking of going back to discs?

As I stated in another post, ODB do not have to be certified. I agree SC statements can be confusing. SC needs to put at the end of statements, pamphlets, etc, that ODB hosts are legitimate and have no need to be certified. That should put things to rest.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I expect that Chris is simply trying to be helpful to those who are having a problem.

leopard lizard, I'm sorry that there have been conflicting messages. The reality is that there are very few ODB hosts in comparison to those who are computer-based, so it can be difficult at times to get out of the mode of thinking about computer-based hosts when there are questions from ODB hosts.

Here are a few things you should be aware of:

1. There is no need for an ODB host to be certified. Neither ODB hosts nor their venues are at risk of being sued by SC for using their discs to put on shows. This is stated not merely to the public but to venues as well when we deal with them individually.

2. Additionally, we have never entered into an agreement that requires a venue to use a certified host. Our standard settlement agreement with venues merely requires the venue to notify us if they hire a non-certified host. In that situation, we would ask the host to provide information about their operations that boils down to answering two questions: (a) Do you use any SC-branded tracks? (b) What mechanism do you use to play them? An ODB host--or a computer-based host who plays no SC--will answer those questions in a way that ends the inquiry. We might spot-check a venue, but the host or venue will probably never realize it unless the host gave us false information.

3. You, as an ODB host, are welcome to become certified through normal channels. Simply contact SC, explain that you use original discs, and that you want to appear on the certified list. You may be asked "why" but if you get rebuffed, simply send me a message at jh (at) hlpc (dot) us and I will assist you.

It has been a year since these promises were made in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=23475

Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:15 pm



Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:35 pm


Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:18 pm


Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:07 am


It has been 52 weeks (12 months) with no progress update.

Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:20 pm


Progress update:

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:55 pm

Period? Or was that an April Fool’s joke?

Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:13 pm



And that option is:
Ask for special attention after being rebuffed like the average Joe will be.





If an ODB host wants to be on equal footing with the publicly endorsed “sound choice certified host” there is a need to be “certified” because there is no other way to be listed on that page. Making statements to venues and the public when dealing with them individually has little impact. Omitting ODB hosts from public listings of endorsement can have much greater impact and that is what is happening. In fact the sound choice web site listing their “certified” hosts makes zero mention of original disc based hosts, so how is a venue owner browsing the list supposed to know that ODB is OK?


This seems to contradict the quote from Kurt Slep but still it appears the underlying pressure on venues is to hire “certified” hosts.
What if the “non-certified” host desires not to answer those questions?

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