Karaoke Forums

I live in Fla. and I don't know of any "Safe Harbor" venues in my area, and we were targeted by SC in Feb, 2011. What cities have safe venues that you are aware of? It would be nice if SC let us in on where they are at.

We don't make that information public.

May I ask why you want to know?

There is nothing sinister lurking here.

#1. To let legal hosts know who to target in an effort to reduce illegal hosts in "safe" venues. It sounds like a great chance to clean things up. I know of way more illegally operating hosts than legal, but I don't know if they are in safe venues. Why the secrecy? Why not let host and venue have a way to unite and promote the cause?

#2. Joe C. asked the question earlier, and I thought it needed further investigation/clarification.

A venue that's using a pirate host isn't "safe."

Here is how the safe harbor program works:

1. The venue signs up.
2. The venue has its host register by filling out a questionnaire.
3. SC analyzes the questionnaire and follows up with the host. For example, if the host is running SC from a computer, we would ask the host to get audited and certified. If the host isn't running legally and won't get legal, we notify the venue about the ongoing infringement.
4. If the venue keeps the host on, the safe harbor doesn't apply, and the venue gets sued with the host.

If you know about a pirate operator, feel free to approach that venue. SC will even provide you with literature to make that process easier. Just call and ask.

Thank you James, Maybe some people on the forum that know of safe venues could chime in.

Actually I do understand what is being asked. If I travel somewhere, it would be nice to go to either a ODB hosted venue or a venue that is part of the Safe Harbour and know I wouldn't be supporting a pirate.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Timberlea, you get the big cigar! I have only recently started going out to other peoples shows, and I would like to promote a legal host's show and not an illegal host. Since the likely hood is greater, but not guaranteed that a safe venue has a legal host, it would narrow my choices considerably. Timberlea & I can't be the only ones interested in doing this. Of course if there aren't any in my area "Oh well" I'll go to the nearest fun spot, pirate or not. I'm not on a crusade just interested.

I too, like Joe C, am an engineer. Numbers and statistics have always interested me. In all my years of collecting data I did it for what I thought was valuable to my field, just as I feel this is.

Mr. Harrington,

Why don't you sue the venues in Raleigh who are still allowing the KJs you sued to continue to work multiple nights per week? Seems like that would be a good use of resources...

mrmarog, I'm in Florida too, Palm Beach County. I am SC and CB certified. So if you're half way close stop by at any of my shows anytime.

I would add that a listing of "Safe Harbor" venues would allow the "certified" hosts to take the best advantage of that label ( and the time, energy, and cost to receive it) by targeting said venues for work.

SC DOES want listed hosts to benefit from it, I hope.

Assuming there were enough of them to make the list worthwhile, of course.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Alex runs one of the best shows I have been to. Great sound good song selection very cool karaoke crowd. Hope to stop into one of his shows next time we are in the area.

Thank you Alex. My wife and I had a year from he11 in 2012 (5 family deaths) and we are finally getting out from under all the legal work of settling the estates.......now it's time to have some fun. I had already considered visiting your show, and this invite will surely quicken things.

No one has yet stated that they are aware of any SAFE venues. Surely some must exist?

If a person wanted to visit a "safe" show then they could look at the list of certified/gem hosts and go from there. A lot of them list websites on their listings as far as finding their shows.

But what is the hesitation by SC to publish that list? When someone doesn't do something that seems like common sense, it makes me wonder' Are there only 4 or 5? This seems like something they'd be shouting out.

Just from what I experience in my tiny corner of nowhere, even though our karaoke company signed up for Safe Harbor, venues aren't going to go out of their way to do it until they see a real need. So if there is no awareness of suits in an area then venues my not want to commit to another hoop to jump through in running their business. Look how many try to get out of ASCAP/BMI etc. and that's not even a voluntary program.

SC offered the venues an avenue to keep from getting sued in the future. That many would presume nothing will happen "way out here" isn't a surprise as far as few taking them up on it. I took the step to register our company knowing that most venues would ignore the whole thing and trying to keep them out of trouble would mainly be my problem. If someone nearby gets sued then I'm betting more will listen.

It makes sense not to put one's self in a position of liability by posting such a list. It stands to reason that putting one's self in a position of claiming that taking a given stance on how to approach business practices from a LEGAL standpoint is better than another given stance could increase one's liability, much like the disclaimer required in legal advertising in many states, i.e.:

Alabama
No representation is made that the quality of the legal services to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services performed by other lawyers.

Alabama Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.2(e) (1997).



Alaska
The Alaska Bar Association does not accredit or endorse certifying organizations.

Alaska Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4(a)(2) (1998).



Florida
The hiring of a lawyer is an important decision that should not be based solely upon advertisements. Before you decide, ask us to send you free written information about our qualifications and experience.

Florida Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 4-7.2(d) (1997).



Hawaii
There is no procedure for review or approval of specialist certification organizations in Hawaii.

Hawaii Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4(c) (1997).



Illinois
The Supreme Court of Illinois does not recognize certifications of specialties in the practice of law and that the certificate, award or recognition is not a requirement to practice law in Illinois.

Illinois Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4(c)(2) (1997).



Iowa
The determination of the need for legal services and the choice of a lawyer are extremely important decisions and should not be based solely upon advertisements or self-proclaimed expertise. This disclosure is required by rule of the Supreme Court of Iowa. Memberships and offices in legal fraternities and legal societies, technical and professional licenses, and memberships in scientific, technical and professional associations and societies of law or field of practice do not mean that a lawyer is a specialist or expert in a field of law, nor do they mean that such a lawyer is necessarily any more expert or competent than any other lawyer. A description or indication of limitation of practice does not mean that any agency or board has certified such lawyer as a specialist or expert in an indicated field of law practice, nor does it mean that such lawyer is necessarily any more expert or competent than any other lawyer. All potential clients are urged to make their own independent investigation and evaluation of any lawyer being considered. This notice is required by rule of the Supreme Court of Iowa.

See Iowa Code of Professional Responsibility DR 2-101(A), DR 2-101(C), DR 2-105(A)(3)(c) (1997).



Massachusetts
If a Massachusetts lawyer holds himself or herself out as "certified" in a particular service, field or area of law by a non-governmental body, the certifying organization is a private organization, whose standards for certification are not regulated by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

See Massachusetts Code of Professional Responsibility DR 2-105(B) (1997).



Mississippi
The Mississippi Supreme Court advises that a decision on legal services is important and should not be based solely on advertisements. Free Background information is available upon request to a Mississippi attorney. The listing of any area of practice by a Mississippi attorney does not indicate any certification of expertise therein.

See Mississippi Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.2(d), Rule 7.4(a), Rule 7.6(a) (1997).



Missouri
Neither the Supreme Court of Missouri nor the Missouri Bar reviews or approves certifying organizations or specialist designations.

Missouri Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4 (1997).



Nevada
Neither the state bar of Nevada nor any agency of the State Bar has certified any lawyer identified here as a specialist or as an expert. Anyone considering a lawyer should independently investigate the lawyer's credentials and ability.

Nevada Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 198 (1997).



New Jersey
Any certification as a specialist, or any certification in a field of practice, that does not state that such certification has been granted by the Supreme Court of New Jersey or by an organization that has been approved by the American Bar Association, indicates that the certifying organization has not been approved, or has been denied approval, by the Supreme Court of New Jersey and the American Bar Association.

See New Jersey Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4(b) (1997).



New Mexico
Any certification by an organization other than the New Mexico Board of Legal Specialization does not constitute recognition by the New Mexico Board of Legal Specialization, unless the lawyer is also recognized by the board as a specialist in that area of law.

See New Mexico Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 16-704(D) (1997).



Rhode Island
The Rhode Island Supreme Court licenses all lawyers in the general practice of law. The court does not license or certify any lawyer as an expert or specialist in any field of practice.

Rhode Island Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.4 (1998).



Tennessee
Unless otherwise indicated, Tennessee attorneys are not certified as specialists by the Tennessee Commission on Continuing Legal Education and Specialization in the areas of practice listed on their profiles.

See Tennessee Code of Professional Responsibility DR 2-101(C)(3) (1998).



Texas
Unless otherwise indicated, Texas attorneys are Not Certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization in the areas of practice listed on their profiles.

See Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 7.04(b)(3) (1999).



Washington
The Supreme Court of Washington does not recognize certification of specialties in the practice of law. Any certificate, award, or recognition by a group, organization or association used by a Washington attorney to describe his or her qualifications as a lawyer or qualifications in any subspecialty of law is not a requirement to practice law in the State of Washington.

See Washington Rules of Professional Responsibility Rule 7.4(b) (1997).



Wyoming
The Wyoming State Bar does not certify any lawyer as a specialist or expert. Anyone considering a lawyer should independently investigate the lawyer's credentials and ability, and not rely upon advertisements or self-proclaimed expertise.

Does ASCAP/BMI have a listing of venues so we can pick and choose which dance clubs or honkytonks we attend to dance to a DJ or line dance to a cover song country band?

_________________
-- Mark

It seems like they might be required to post such a list if it were deemed illegal to attend any such establishment providing such entertainment that is not affiliated with ASCAP/BMI et. al. This, of course, could stir up all kinds of discussions over what is deemed, and even the contextual definition of, LEGAL...

I looked through the ASCAP website and see no listing of venues who have paid for license.

http://www.ascap.com/

So my question is this: Why should Sound Choice list their Safe Harbor participants?

Similarly, one should boycott venues who don't pay PRO fees as well, but how do we know? You could call the venue I guess or look for an ASCAP sticker around the entrance.

Here's a thought. Can SC issue Safe Harbor stickers/signs etc to their participants to display so patrons are aware?

_________________
-- Mark

Patrons don't care...