Karaoke Forums

Joe:

While I support your effort and what your are saying, I guessing you haven't realized yet that the SC Cheerleaders will NEVER EVER back down.

I'm for one am glad that you have taken up the fight where Chip was made to lay down his.
I hope that you are not heading that way too as it would be very sad to see you go.

Keep up the good fight, but keep a cool head, and just remember that Lawyers will do just about anything to win, including but not limited to lying to get their clients a win.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Read your own post, Timberlea:

"So it is the venues not allowing YOU to advertise...

It's MY ad, MY money. The venues don't allow it because of SC's actions, similar to the reason why some don't allow the use of SC tracks ( which include 2 of mine).

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Your loss. As previously stated, but unread by you, I have been relatively unaffected by this simply due to being in my work area for so long. What I stated was that NEWBIES are being screwed by SC's actions.

As far as blowing off a venue, at between $215 for a small to $280 for a large, I'm not about to blow of anyone, and will leave only if a show stops bringing in the income that it should.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

While I thank you for your kind words, you should know that I took up this "fight" before my friend Chip even knew it existed.

As for keeping a cool head, you might note that though some who debate me will use insults, flames, negative personalizations, etc..., to distract from weak points, I do not- nor do I need to.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I am a "NEWBIE"....remember? It hasn't and don't foresee it ever being a loss to me because the venues here in Seattle don't behave the same way as they apparently do in your area. I have yet to hear of any venue in the Seattle area forbidding the use of Sound Choice product. They certainly don't forbid me from advertising and in fact encourage me to advertise.

It's interesting to me that you are letting a venue dictate to you what your business practices are, but rail against Sound Choice for doing the same thing. The difference being that the actively venue lines your pocket. Money makes the world go 'round.....

-Chris

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-Chris

Exactly. The venues pay me- and quite well I might add. SC does absolutely nothing for anyone, and is generally a negative impact on the industry, and a detraction of KJ business. What is your question?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

No. You just make things up when it suits your argument.



Hey. Quit stealing my lines.

No question.

Your opinion of Sound Choice is your opinion, not fact. Sound Choice may be having a negative impact on karaoke in your area, we are suffering no detectable ill effects from Sound Choice actions here in the Seattle area.

-Chris

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-Chris

I have to agree with you Chris in my area SC is having no detectable ill effects, because no one has seen them except one host I've met. As far as PR is concerned nothing. What has hurt worse is the bad economy but there is little anyone can do about that. I would think you would be the last host effected after all you are certified and backing the home team. If things were going badly for you, it wouldn't be a ringing endorsement for supporting SC and their efforts. Have a blessed day.

Oh, I never claimed that the venues worries were VALID, and have attempted to educate them, but the "why take chances" mentality is strong.

NJ would be a VERY tough state for SC. I could almost guarantee that they would be found guilty of Restraint Of Trade here- and NJ is VERY hard on folks that they believe are doing that.

For example, we speak of multi-riggers asking their host to sign non-compete contracts ( most of which would be worthless almost anywhere anyhow- but beside the point.)

Here in NJ the multi-rigger could be sued- with basis- for requiring it of his employees. Here they call THAT Restraint Of Trade.

The venues don't want to hear it, don't want waves, and in many cases, don't want SC. As stated earlier, other KJs here from different parts of the country have run into it as well, so it's NOT "my opinion", it just is.

Again, no biggie to me personally, because SC is an extremely miniscule part of my library, always has been, and has never been an important label in regard to the success of my work.

Just a rapidly fading name here...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I watch too much TV/Movies....."restraint of trade" sounds like something that the mafia or other criminal enterprises pushed through the legal system so they could do anything they want to make money and limit legal remedies for any that wish to raise any questions.

-Chris

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-Chris

"Restraint of Trade" aka "Restraint of a Business", at least here happens when a business doesn't pay its taxes or is done by order of a court, and is seized.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Timberlea, your legal system is different.

Chris, Different states interpret business law differently, with some being more business oriented than others- usually in hopes of drawing in, developing, and holding tax paying businesses.

Restraint of Trade -extremely simply put- means taht one business is using what the state considers unfair practices to keep another business from operating as in a manner that they deem successful and within state guidelines.

Once again, these guidelines differ from state to state. For example NJ and DE are VERY business oriented, while FL and the Carolinas could almost care less. Their economies are not based on luring in new industries, but through tourism, new and continuing individual residence, etc.. It's not like Disney World will get annoyed at the taxes there and move to another state, or tourism in Daytona Beach would increase if the entire town relocated to connecticut....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Actually they are very similar, only the names have changed to protect the guilty. .

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You can be strange but not a stranger

As the OP, I have concluded that there are very few Safe Harbor Venues, or the hosts that know of them have been sworn to secrecy, under penalty of law (kind of like the mattress tags). Leopard Lizard was the ONLY one that spoke up about the existence of a Safe Harbor . She had first hand knowledge because she signed up for it as a host.

It would seem very logical to make this list available for all to see, because we safe KJ's (be it certified, Gemified, disc based, technical infringers, etc.) want to see the industry continue. We should feel that those of us that "really do OWN our music" should have a better opportunity to get the best gigs. I know how much time and money it takes to acquire and organize a LARGE collection.

I do believe that educating the venues sounds like the correct approach, but I also believe that it actually works against karaoke as a whole. By getting the word out to venues that they risk being sued if they don't hire a legal/safe KJ, most venues will just say "no" to karaoke all together, even if the host is legal and/or plays zero SC/CB/PH music.

Others on here have stated that not playing SC/CB/PH will solve their headaches........venues are finding that not having karaoke will solve it for sure.

Just as a correction, Leopard Lizard signed up as a host with Safe Harbor--not the venue. There are two different avenues of doing that--either as a Host or a Venue.

I am also wondering if a certified host (I am not at this time) couldn't contact SC and ask for leads in their area. Those of us not in that loop really can't comment on what might or might not be happening within it. If you want the benefits of their game then you probably have to sign up to play first.

I have lost a job partially due to trying to educate on legalities but it was on the ASCAP/BMI front and not SC. I tried to tell the owner he can't keep hanging up on them and he got very angry with me. Most out here have yet to feel threatened by SC because they feel they will never come out here or bother with the small potatoes. The ones who don't want to advertise are trying to hide from paying BMI. I think if they were actually worried about SC than they would quit hiring pirates.

Thank you Leopard Lizard. I have corrected my statement just in case I get quoted so it will be accurate

Thank you, Mrmarog, this was the point that I was trying to make- and the reason that I asked for a listing of venues.

I don't think SC could come up with one- another phantom, like the KIAA.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

All COULD be. DK, because many east coast hosts swear by them, and also, I would note that the original 1-99 discs STILL have the highest re-sale value of any manufacturer.

Pioneer, for their excellent quality- acknowledged as better than SC, plus great graphics.

CB, because they were the all time top country genre producer.

SC made good tracks, but other companies like CB and PS EXCELLED, where they were just good. Additionally, none of the named mfrs. cause any problems for their customers or venues. SC just isn't worth it.

I WILL say that SC did some great marketing- hey, they could actually brainwash KJs into thinking that a brand was more important to the show than hosting skills- to the detriment of the KJ. Now they are laughably convinced that without a certain brand, their show will suffer. Too bad they don't have confidence in their hosting skills, but they could take the time to learn the profession that they took on if they wished to, I guess....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."