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Lonman
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 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:39 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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BruceFan4Life wrote: [The only difference between a PC based show and a disc based show is a bit of convenience for the host. If everything else is the same at a given venue, ie. speakers, microphones, library; the karaoke singer (customer) couldn't care less how the KJ runs the show. Well I would disagree there. Because of computers, singer have gotten lazy as in wanting to look up their songs and write them down. 9 out of 10 times, they will come up and ask for a song without even knowing if it's available (I have books, computer & phone app books available as well). The regular singers ask to pick something from their list often times (however no different than when we'd store & file slips for singers so don't argue that people will never sing anything different). So even though the singer may not realize the perks with computers, they definitely do get them as well. Quote: The only argument comes from the computer based KJ trying to tout his show as being better somehow in hopes of denegrating his competition so he might get a gig over the disc based operator. As a karaoke singer, I prefer it when I walk in and see that the host is a disc based karaoke KJ because I KNOW that I, as a customer, will be able to sing whatever songs that I have brought with me without some KJ complaining about what a hassle it is for him to load a disc into his MTU software. I never seem to get that reaction from a disc based host, so maybe the laptop KJ is LESS and not MORE when it comes to providing CUSTOMER SERVICE. Of course now someone always brings up the argument about someone bringing in a Pioneer Laser Disc. My opinion on that is very few people EVER OWNED a Pioneer Laser Disc. They were very expensive and a big part of the reason that karaoke hosts were paid much more when Laser disc karaoke came out. If I were doing a show and someone came in with a laser disc, I would inform the customer that I didn't have a Laser Disc player as they haven't made a karaoke Laser Disc in close to twenty years. The sane thing goes for karaoke VHS and Karaoke cassettes. They are still making plenty of Karaoke CD+G discs and in my opinion, every KJ should have a device or a computer that can play them without having to copy them. I would also tell the customers who came in with those 3 older formats that I would do my best to accomodate them; even if I had to make the songs from scratch for them if they would leave their disc/tape/cassette with me for a day or two. I have a Laser Disc player, a VCR, a cassette deck and a video capture device at home and I would take it as a fun challenge to satisfy a potential regular customer. If the CD+G format is still being sold by many large retailers and many Karaoke CD+G players are being sold to many home users to practice with, how can this format be concsidered dead in the water? Is every parent now expected to buy a laptop to play karaoke at their house and all of the bits and pieces to hook it up to their home sound system so little Sally can sing Taylor swift songs? I don't think so. The karaoke machine and karaoke Discs will be around for quite some time. I can still play discs (cdg/vcd/laserdiscs) as well - actually encourage people to buy their own & bring them in, also can play from flash drive. Not worried about someone trying to deliberately sabotage my system - not that paranoid. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:31 am |
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:18 pm
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But still why do you care? Why are you worried that I might get left behind? Why must you post jokes about it? Why are you so insecure that disc hosts still exist?
No I'm not going to claim it is better in any way. In fact I see limitations right now as far taking more time to set up and the availability of songs/equipment in the future. It is not something I will resist until I die. But this is a strange situation. As I said before--the laws have not caught up with the technology as far as the karaoke world goes. I think it is a legitimate concern. So disc also gives me the convenience of playing any thing I have bought without worry. I can also accommodate those home singers who are still tied to disc. I have also taken a giant economic hit right now so I can't afford to convert at the moment but I can still earn some income running my "Dinosaur Shows"--which for some reason have a bunch of 20 somethings at them that could care less about the discs. In fact I even got a high five on the lasers.
The only reason I can think of for people to even get on disc hosts and call them dinosaurs is either Chris A can't stand the thought of someone not using a Microsoft product to run their shows (don't worry Chris--I have a laptop in the show as bumper music player and master songlist access and sometimes for lighting control--you're still getting your cut) or it somehow puts a crimp in the argument that it is no longer doable to run a show on discs and "everybody's doing it" as far as trying to defend "technical infringing."
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:50 am |
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TopherM wrote: Quote: Does this seem like a product that is obsolete? http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... 50&bih=459  ...yup. One of the death nells for any given adult tech product is when they become cheap enough to be toys  So now obsolescence is now defined by the cost of the item? Then a $300 computer might as well be considered obsolete because they used to cost thousands. If an item is being sold at numerous types of retailers as well as internet stores, I find it hard to consider it obsolete. You can go into hundreds of brick and mortar stores as well as internet sites and buy a karaoke disc and a machine to play them. You can't go into any store a buy a vinyl 78 that was made in th elast 50 years. You might find a specialty online location that might still be selling vintage vinyl music discs but they are truly obsolete. You can go to various stores and buy, on a karaoke disc, the latest hits that are playing on the radio today. Can you buy the latest Taylor Swift or Adele songs on a 78 rpm vinyl disc? No you cannot but you can buy all of their hits on a karaoke CD+G disc, and various machines to play them on, at hundreds of places. That being said; the karaoke disc is far from obsolete; no matter how badly you want it to be to suit your stance on the subject.
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Cueball
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:05 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm
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Location: New York City
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TopherM wrote: So, you either hop on board, or AT SOME POINT (might not be today), you are simply just nostalga. There's a time and a place for nostalga, but 999 times out of 1000, you simply CAN NOT argue that the outdated technology is overall better for more people than updated technology. If it were, the majority of people would still be buying/using the old stuff! You know... It's kinda funny but, my songs played from discs on my Karaoke Player sound just like your songs played via your Hard Drive. It's REMARKABLE.
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TopherM
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:42 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:09 am
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Location: Tampa Bay, FL
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Quote: Can you buy the latest Taylor Swift or Adele songs on a 78 rpm vinyl disc? ...of course you can You may not have been to a record shop in a while, but mine sells LPs from most of the major modern artists. I bought my GF the latest Regina Spektor album for Xmas, and bought probably 5-6 records this year myself. Google Taylor Swift or Adele, and you'll find plenty of places selling their latest LP record. Either way I give up. We're arguring the semantics of the word "obsolete" here, and there is no winner in that endevour. I will, however leave you with this FACT. Music CD sales are trending DOWNWARD while MP3 sales are trending UPWARD. According to Neilson, CD sales were DOWN 13 % in 2012, MP3 sales were UP 9.8% in 2012. I don't know the karaoke numbers, but I would expect them to be skewed even higher in the digital favor. Extrapolate the trends, and you can predict the future. Magical! CDs will never die, but all physical media is going the way of the LP - nostagia/indie industry. ONE DAY one of your younger patrons will look at your CDG and say "whoa, is that a CD? I haven't seen one of those since I was a kid." That day is rapidly coming...
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KJ, FL
Last edited by TopherM on Mon May 06, 2013 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:55 am |
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but he can bring all of his songs in the space of 3 or 4 jewel cases and his laptop program can find and load a song in less time than a disc based host. That's the convenience issue that I spoke about in an earlier post. There is no increase in sound quality. Personally, I hardly ever need a song book to look through. I usually bring my own songs to sing. If the KJ can play a disc with his laptop, that's good enough for me. If he can't; I'll probably stay and find something to sing but unless I had a really good time there, I probably wouldn't go back.
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:59 am |
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TopherM wrote: Quote: Can you buy the latest Taylor Swift or Adele songs on a 78 rpm vinyl disc? ...of course you can You may not have been to a record shop in a while, but mine sells LPs from most of the major modern artists. I bought my GF the latest Regina Spektor album for Xmas, and bought probably 5-6 records this year myself. Google Taylor Swift or Adele, and you'll find plenty of places selling their latest LP record. Either way I give up. We're arguring the semantics of the word "obsolete" here, and there is no winner in that endevour. I will, however leave you with this FACT. Music CD sales are trending DOWNWARD while MP3 sales are trending UPWARD. According to Neilson, CD sales were DOWN 13 % in 2012, MP3 sales were UP 9.8% in 2012. I don't know the karaoke numbers, but I would expect them to be skewed even higher in the digital favor. Extrapolate the trends, and you can predict the future. Magical! CDs will never die, but all physical media is going the way of the LP - nostagia/indie industry. A 78 rpm record is not the same as an LP(33and 1/3) record. Find a place that sells 78s of Taylor Swift and get back to me.
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TopherM
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:38 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:09 am
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My bad. Semantics strike again. It all depends on what your definition of the word "is" is, right?
BTW, they don't make Taylor Swift albums on any other sized polycarbonate/aluminum discs besides the standard compact sizing, though she's a huge proponent of the little known super video compact disc, and sells each of her albums in an optional SVCD format with karaoke swipes included! It's my little known fact of the day!
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C Mc
KJ, FL
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timberlea
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:14 pm |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm
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Bottom line, if it works, it works.
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TopherM
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:28 pm |
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timberlea wrote: Bottom line, if it works, it works. Exactly! And tapes with lyric sheets and laserdisks work just fine! 
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C Mc
KJ, FL
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:24 pm |
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:18 pm
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How about Disc users WILL eventually be a thing of the past but right now they are still kicking?
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chrisavis
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:49 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm
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First of all..... stand up..... take a wide stance..... pull your bunched up panties out of your butts.
ODB hosts completely mistake what I have to say about discs being obsolete and what I consider to be the future as a personal attack. I have nothing against ODB hosts. I don't look down on ODB hosts (if anything....it is the ODB hosts that look down on the computer hosts). I don't wish any ill will on ODB hosts. I don't wish they would go away. I am not trying to get ODB hosts to convert. In fact, depending on your circumstances, converting may not make any sense what-so-ever.
Just don't try to convince me that someone starting out new in the business should choose to run ODB over a computer based system.
-Chris
ps......I could absolutely care less if you use Microsoft products to run your karaoke show/business. No matter what operating system and software you use, be respectful and pay for it (the same way you do with your karaoke music.....right?).
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:17 pm |
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I'm sorry. I should have realized that Dinosaur was meant as a compliment/tribute.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:33 pm |
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leopard lizard wrote: I'm sorry. I should have realized that Dinosaur was meant as a compliment/tribute. It wasn't....but I hoped the tongue in cheek nature of showing a cassette/8 track/boombox would at least come across. -Chris
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:45 pm |
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It came across as making fun of people as in belittling them for being behind the times, etc. And for what reason? Not sure how it affects you. There have also been threads where you have stated, "When I see a disc host I think Dinosaur." So for some reason you have a bug up your whatever about it. I think you should be happy that disc hosts don't have a bizilllion song Craigslist hard drive going up against your show. Instead we are colleagues using the media as it was originally intended.
I would agree that most starting out aren't going to choose disc but it won't be due to economics. If you compare the cost of a couple of players and something to keep the discs in vs the cost of a computer, an operating system, a hosting program, audits and the time spent ripping then computer starts to look more expensive--especially if someone happens to already own players from their home system.
I have no problem discussing if there will be a future for discs in the industry and I would agree they will eventually be phased out. What I don't get is why people have to add the snide remarks along with it. And it doesn't insult me because I feel solid in what I am doing and the direction I will be going. I am just curious as to why you keep bringing up disc hosts to call them Dinosaurs. It seems to bother you for some reason that not everyone has switched.
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Lonman
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:53 pm |
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Like dj's and pro musicians that use vinyl to mix/mash/smaple songs. This is an art form to get it right and still a preferred method. Vinyl is sold to dj's (new music too) still. Fred Meyer has a small vinyl section as well. Story was they got a shipment in by mistake and decided to throw them out on the floor - they sold out in a couple days and decided to order more. Now they have an actual section - albeit a small one.
I would still offer a way to play tapes if it was still necessary. This hasn't been requested since around 99. I pulled my player out around 06 or so although still have it.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:43 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 pm
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i was looking at those nielsen ratings that were mentioned and it is interresting (not arguing, just interesting information i thought)
cd albums are down 13.50% from 224 million to 193 million, -31 million
digital albums are up 14.10% from 103 million to 118 million, +5 million
but the kicker....
digital TRACK sales (one track at a time) up 5.10% from 1.271 billion to 1.336 billion, +63 million
just kinda neat that the trend isn't even digital sales, but digital one at a time track sales.
the total, up 37 million sales. seems at least more people are willing to buy music instead of steal it if it is one off tracks. thats nice to see.
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:13 pm |
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Once again, I guess I need to point out that they are STILL MAKING CD+G discs and selling them just about EVERYWHERE. The same is true for machines that play these discs. Now many of today's KJs are ahead of the technology curve but there is a term I see used when it comes to new technology and that is "Backwards Compatible". USB 3 devices fit into the same port as USB 1 devices which is what consumers want and that is why manufacturers make them that way. I think that computer based KJs should apply the same policy when it comes to doing their karaoke shows. It's very simple to install a piece of software to accomodate the people that are still buying CD+G karaoke discs for their own enjoyment. Not everyone is up to date on every new piece of technology. There are still millions of people using their VCRs happily and don't want to use a DVR or watch movies on DVDs. There is no reason to speak of them as dinosaurs or ludites to show your self appointed superiority over them. I've never said that KJs should be able to play a particular media that is no longer made but I would venture a guess that they still sell more karaoke on discs than by download. I believe the GEM series comes on discs, right? I guess that means that Sound Choice is obsolete as well, as far as you are concerned.
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:21 pm |
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I'll take a shot in the dark here and say that Lonnie is probably the most long term successful karaoke host on this forum. That being said, maybe a big part of his success is the fact that he plays karaoke in as many formats as possible in order to satisfy as many singers as possible. The KJs who refuse to do so are only cheating themselves out of more customers. Lonnie doesn't consider a singer who brings his own songs as a PITA. He considers him or her as a singer and nothing more or less than a singer and a spending customer and they are welcome at his show. Some KJs consider the same people as an annoyance and a slowdown to their show so they try their best to deter those people from going to their shows or at least deter them from bringing their own discs. "My way or the highway indeed"
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:54 pm |
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Despite the fact that computers are much more reliable now, Go on any KJ or DJ forum and you will find hundreds of pages of PC or software based problems. I'm sorry, but I'm not going for the "just as dependable as a player" story just yet. Also, virtually every modern player has USB and card interfaces- though no one really cares. Not going through the MP3 debate again- it's kind of like explaining a 3D movie to someone with astigmatism. If one doesn't hear the difference, one simply doen't believe there is one. All of that aside, the most fun I have is with what early PC hosts USED to say: "The PC is so fast and easy that it will give me more time to spend working with and developing relationships with new customers." So what happens? Virtually every PC based show that I've been to has a host that is never more than a foot from the PC, and pretty much spends the night looking like Mr. Spock gazing into one of his scanners. The think is, Leopard has it right: It seems that PC hosts feel a need to to "defend" their actions by insulting and denigrating anyone who doesn't do it their way, while ODB hosts don't have that problem. Why is that? Lastly, for those who consider themselves "cheerleaders" of SC: According to SC, 95% of all PC based hosts are "pirates". This means that as far as they are concerned, the HUGE MAJORITY(almost ALL) of PC based hosts are dishonest thieves. Now, if you're a fan of SC, you might believe that there is some correlation between the use of a PC to run a show, and honesty problems. Maybe using PC's CAUSES dishonesty, per SC's thinking.  How do you PC based hosts feel about SC's thoughts on this matter? If you think it's just me, read what I posted about an article comparing Vinyl audio to MP3 on another thread.. Those are the author's words, not mine.
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