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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:09 pm 
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
How would it NOT eliminate those brands? Still, I see your point, to some extent. It should have no effect on theJapanese (DK, and unfortunately SAV/Nikkodo) and UK brands ( like Legends, Sunfly, SBI, Zoom, Laughing Gnome, Capitol, etc...)already in the country though it could later, if the awakened giants decide they want more control. They could design a requirement where only those tracks with U.S. licensing could be used. Kind of like SC stepping on GEM's feet. :lol: Though my Oldies singers like my MM discs, no one will really care about SGB- unless that is the only source for a given song.
None of this invalidates my point. If SC can get the use of older orphan brands eliminated, then they will have created a new market for their old tracks. It's got nothing to do with fighting piracy.


Joe, we are not talking about eliminating the use of those brands. We're talking about eliminating the use of pirated copies of those brands. People who own the original discs will still be able to use that material. It's the people who don't own the discs, who just downloaded them from some IRC site, who would be stopped. Of course, if the material wasn't licensed in the first place, that would have to be stopped as well--but are you really suggesting that people should be able to use pirated material without consequences?

You stated that hosts using discs for which royalties were paid would have no worries. MM was sued out of business because they DIDN'T have the proper licensing. This means, per your statement, that you are trying to get the use of MM eliminated. However, - and again- it is not, nor has it EVER been the host's responsibility to to verify. the mfrs. licensing.

JoeChartreuse wrote:
I know that you have stated that SC has paid all fines and fees, but that only limits their liability- it in no way indicates permission and licensing for those tracks. We both know said tracks were not limited to the famous Eagles disc, but include many others, some in the Star series, Some in Spotlight , and the other series as well. I stand by my premise.


No. Any material that was put out with less than complete licensing was legitimized at the settlements. If it had to be pulled, then it was pulled, but product that was already in the marketplace was legitimized.

Nope. SC's liability was covered, but unlicensed discs are still unlicensed. However, I think that you are trying to say that by paying the suits, SC's use of SC's tracks may not be actionable within the parameters of your plan. Could be true.

JoeChartreuse wrote:
As for the last statement, it would depend on to whom one speaks. EMI certainly thinks that the suit has substance. Since they have substantial funds one could assume that their legal counsel is no less trained or experienced than yourself.


Their access to funds has absolutely zero to do with the counsel they've retained for this purpose, as he works on contingent fee.
Assuming that is true- and I have no way of knowing if it is or not- would not working on contingency motivate counsel to limit themselves to cases for which they believe there is substance? Why bother otherwise?


JoeChartreuse wrote:
Though you state that there was no investigation, I would have to give EMI as much of the benefit of the doubt as you feel SC deserves when the same statement is made in regard to them.



JoeChartreuse wrote:
I also note that you haven't commented on the grave damage such a thing- if it could possibly be enacted- would have on the industry, so I will re-state them:

Were he to actually be successful, he could singlehandedly wipe out the karaoke industry.

Think about it. All the "Library Dependant" KJs with exactly the same SC library. No way to compete for them.

Then you have the folks who prefer to sing versions other than SC. "My way or the highway" is not a builder of customer bases.

There are the many good KJs- who pay for their music- who have been at it a very long time and have eclectic libraries to fulfill customer expectations who would no longer have that ability.

What about the songs that SC didn't and won't produce?

Then, of course, once ALL of the sleeping giants get involved, they will all want some money to make it worthwhile- and SC's peanuts won't satisfy them.

OR they could just get sick of the whole thing and get a Cease & Desist in place

Of course, that doesn't have any effect on SC, and maybe it would be his ultimate parting shot at the industry if the litigation business model proves to be the failure it seems to be.

This would have an effect on employees of the karaoke hosting companies as well as the owners


NOTE: I apologize for the length of this post, but if Jim replies within my post I have to reply the same way, and can't edit.


Your argument is both bizarre (which is not surprising) and pro-pirate (which is). No one is talking about keeping legitimate material out of the marketplace. Your dire prediction is based on a faulty premise. If piracy of the abandoned brands is stopped, that gives space for legitimate competitors to come into the marketplace. It's the piracy that is the anti-competitive activity, not the anti-piracy work.


Nothing bizarre about it, except in your response in hopes of discrediting all of the reasons given above, without giving any substancial or factual information in rebuttal. In other words, instead of branding my statement with an off description, why not try explaining it away.

This has been the problem all along. You seem to hope that one and all will accept anything you say or do- regardless of validity - at face value. Maybe if you took the time to fully explain your actions, and supply full reasoning for your answers- not for my sake, but yours- it would be possible to gain back some piece of all of that lost credibility.

Your "Pro-Pirate" statement is simply another debate distraction from your extremely weak position.

As for my statements regarding giving EMI the benefit of the doubt, many of the forum here immediately labeled those KJs sued by SC as pirates rather than media shifters. EMI has shown no reticence in allowing others the benefit of the doubt, but SC does not offer the same. Therefore, IMHO- and just mine- EMI deserves it, and SC doesn't. No one deserves what they are not willing to give themselves.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:42 am 
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
Nope. SC's liability was covered, but unlicensed discs are still unlicensed.


This is very precisely not correct. Licensing and legitimization of past sales has been a part of each settlement.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:24 am 
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Nope. SC's liability was covered, but unlicensed discs are still unlicensed.


This is very precisely not correct. Licensing and legitimization of past sales has been a part of each settlement.


1) A complete, utter, absolute lie. SC has NEVER had licensing for the Eagles disc. Post the documentation, or stop fabricating horseS**t about it.

2) You did not/could not reply regarding you intent to remove the use of other mfrs. in hopes of finding a new market for SC's old tracks.

I note that you are STILL skipping the rest of my post. No answer says a lot....

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:04 am 
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
HarringtonLaw wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Nope. SC's liability was covered, but unlicensed discs are still unlicensed.


This is very precisely not correct. Licensing and legitimization of past sales has been a part of each settlement.


1) A complete, utter, absolute lie. SC has NEVER had licensing for the Eagles disc. Post the documentation, or stop fabricating horseS**t about it.

2) You did not/could not reply regarding you intent to remove the use of other mfrs. in hopes of finding a new market for SC's old tracks.

I note that you are STILL skipping the rest of my post. No answer says a lot....

hold on Joe, you WANT it to be a lie but that doesn't make it one. stuff like that happens all the time in settlements and that would be the best recourse in that situation as they could not realistically pull back the sold discs. you keep saying it can not be licensed at all ever so show us where you are getting this from.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
HarringtonLaw wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Nope. SC's liability was covered, but unlicensed discs are still unlicensed.


This is very precisely not correct. Licensing and legitimization of past sales has been a part of each settlement.


1) A complete, utter, absolute lie. SC has NEVER had licensing for the Eagles disc. Post the documentation, or stop fabricating horseS**t about it.

2) You did not/could not reply regarding you intent to remove the use of other mfrs. in hopes of finding a new market for SC's old tracks.

I note that you are STILL skipping the rest of my post. No answer says a lot....

hold on Joe, you WANT it to be a lie but that doesn't make it one. stuff like that happens all the time in settlements and that would be the best recourse in that situation as they could not realistically pull back the sold discs. you keep saying it can not be licensed at all ever so show us where you are getting this from.


Can't prove a negative- basic math- but you can prove a positive. Show me the licensing. The eagles never licensed that disc- period. I didn't say " in my opinion", or " I don't think they did", I said they didn't. If they did, there would be documentation. There is none.

While we're at it, I wouldn't want to leave the impression that we're talking about one disc. For example, SC8438, 2029,8550, 8435- all TV Theme discs, have the same problem- or at least they were all pulled for it. They may possibly be included in the GEM series- I have no idea- but it would be new licensing. I won't even start on the Star Series single artist discs.

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