Karaoke Forums

OK great we are on the same page and even jumped past the next issue I was going to address pro fees

Now onward to the next part.

When it comes to karaoke you are aware than more licencing is required than for a CD right ?

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

OK great we are on the same page and even jumped past the next issue I was going to address pro fees

Now onward to the next part.

When it comes to karaoke you are aware than more licencing is required than for a CD right ?[/quote]

It's called corporate GREED!!! There should be no difference between the license fees for downloads, sd cards, cd+g, or any other media that can hold karaoke music, or ANY music for that matter. My contention is that anyone who agrees that Publisher SHOULD be allowed to do this is part of the problem, and is part of the reason why this industry will NEVER move forward.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I did not realize corporations should be in the non-profit business. I always thought that was the point--to generate revenue to stay in business.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

They can make a profit, but there is no reason to charge different rates for different delivery systems. that IS greed.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

But different delivery systems have different costs.

Should UPS charge the same for Ground, 2, 3, or Next Day air?

Same planes and trucks....

We are talking about songs not packages. The publishers have always been greedy bastards. No, I don't believe they should make more for downloads than for plastic. All they are doing is taking advantage of everyone who purchases music. They get away it because of the people who think it is fine and dandy for them to do so. We should be fighting for fair license laws like they have in the UK, not let them walk all over the music industry and it's customers. Some of you are just willing to take it because "profit is good"?? When does profit turn to pure greed?

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

It's called corporate GREED!!! There should be no difference between the license fees for downloads, sd cards, cd+g, or any other media that can hold karaoke music, or ANY music for that matter. My contention is that anyone who agrees that Publisher SHOULD be allowed to do this is part of the problem, and is part of the reason why this industry will NEVER move forward.[/quote]

******RANT ALERT*******

Not quite corporate GREED Smoothedge......

The prices are set so that the creator (in this case Publisher and/or artist) is able to continue to make money off the product. If there is no profit to be made then there is no reason to make the product.

In the case of karaoke there has been SO MUCH piracy that the publishers are being paid for less than 10% of the product being used and they are now awake and pissed. The technology evolved much too quickly for the laws to keep up AND they publishers were fighting and dealing with the much larger music part of the market.

Add to that fact that companies in other countries have systems in place like PRS that regulate the issues (and charge KJ's a yearly licence fee as well as the pro fees to make up the difference ) and assign criminal penalties to those who ignore the laws.

Until recently there have been no guidelines in place to handle downloads....each and every track had to be negotiated individually with the publishers. Track A by XYZ artist may be agreed to have a 6 cent charge (with limits) while track B by XYZ artist (same publisher and writers) may cost 16 cents.

There are and have been basic guidelines for" hard media" for many years.

Now during all the changes the publishers have learned from the music side of the market some things.

1. That they hold all the cards
this is why there are some artists that you can not buy digitally on sites like itunes
2. That they can set the price IF they choose to allow downloads
and
3. That subscription services (like spotify)that allow them to "pull" songs whenever they
wish allows them to keep more control.(very few people ever read TOS and just hit agree)

Because digital media is so much easier to pirate/share/steal the publishers are looking for ways to insure they are paid for the product. Yes it has taken over a decade but we do now 1.have blocking/reporting of torrent site users. 2.The laws have been changed to disallow imports of music from other countries that have not paid for the licencing to sell within the USA and now 3. Overseas companies have been "persuaded" to not sell the unlicensed product here as downloads.

Please understand I am not against the concept of a subscription service.The subscription model does make sense for for others however, If a KJ is new they can get a huge number of tracks with little investment, and they do not have to research what new tracks to purchase. It is just not for me. Personally I do not like downloads...I want that physical media in my hands as it allows me to continue to use those tracks even if licencing is pulled (or expires) in the future. It also allows me to to sell/trade/gift that physical media in the future. I will gladly pay a premium to have my tracks on "hard media".

The publishers/artists have every right to be paid for their creations. This whole situation was not created by any manufacture of karaoke...it was caused by an shift in attitude that has most thinking it is ok to STEAL intellectual property (music/karaoke/movies/software) just because a method exists to do so. Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it should be done.

****** Rant over*****

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

It's still greed. If a publisher can make $.10 a song on a CD, there is no reason why they need $.16 a song for a downloads. Piracy is an excuse. You know why piracy originally came about?? It wasn't just because the technology was there. It came about BECAUSE of the publishers charging so much for CDs. I remember seeing Led Zeppelin 1 (for example), for $17. Here was a CD of music that was thirty years old at the time, and it was $17. People got tired of paying that much for their music. It's funny how many places started selling CDs cheaper after the RIAA debacle. You blame EVERYTHING that is wrong with the music industry on piracy. Piracy came about BECAUSE of the music industry and their greed. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what happens when you screw your customers, you get screwed back.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Because digital files are much easier and likely and more likely to be STOLEN. By your reasoning why should they charge more for the song to be used in advertising or a movie ?
HINT the answer is because they can.

and without trying to knock you Smoothedge, the music industry thrived on selling music by the album for many years and the feeling that every track should be available individually is what started this whole mess. (You could pay say $15 for an entire album or spend $5 for limited releases on singles)

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

^^^^^^ WHISTLE WHISTLE WHISTLE^^^^^^^


They can, because SOME people, (I won't name names, just look at the party and whistle),
are fine with it and won't fight against it to get more fair laws that favor the CONSUMERS. People just roll over and take it like a bunch of lemmings jumping off a cliff.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

IF everybody paid for those downloads instead of over half stealing them...they wouldn't have to charge more.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

They would anyway. Greed.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Smoothedge,

The sad part is that entitlement thinking may shut down the whole industry in this country. ( at least temporarily ).

We are already seeing the blocking of US customers from the overseas sites... and American karaoke manufactures are having a harder time getting rights to release good new tracks. Now with our libraries and customer base we can survive for years with just the music we have (if need be) but it is the smaller and newer KJ's (like yourself) that will really suffer if the publishers decide to just not licence (or re-licence) new karaoke tracks.

If even 1 of the big publishing houses (say Sony/EMI) decided to not licence the songs they control for karaoke the damage would be widespread and exponential making the "no fly" list pale in comparison.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

You won't survive if the producers tell everyone to cease and desist. All your discs and all your righteousness won't save you if the Big Bad Wolf blows down your house, along with everyone else's.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Not true Smoothedge....we have everything we need to go back to slinging discs and would only loose a small fraction of 1 % of songs that were purchased as downloads. Because we have the ability to use the physical media we would survive and most likely thrive due to the HUGE decrease in karaoke operations.

And yes my original manufactures discs do offer me a level of legal protection not offered by downloads.(due to T.O.S AND other issues).

No I would not like to go back to lugging LD's and CDG's in the volume we have but we could.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Let me ask you this: do you charge the same rate for a bar gig that you do for a private engagement?

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

You don't get what I am saying. If the Publishers have the power you say they have they could turn around and say NO MORE KARAOKE in ANY form. No downloads, no mp3+G, no discs!!!! You will cease and desist ALL public shows or be sued out of existence!!!! And don't bother arguing that they can't do that, because if The Big Bad Wolf is THAT powerful, than they CAN do that!!! Keep needling them with your questions, keep poking the giants, and keep pushing them to action, and watch the entire house of cards come tumbling down!!! In that case, I'LL be fine. I don't have tens of thousands invest in music that would become utterly worthless, BUT I could continue as a DJ. I wouldn't have to invest tens of thousands on DJ music because I have been collecting CDs since 1991. I would only have to but a few discs every now and then to keep updated. Now That's Music would be perfect for that.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I have only done a few parties for friends, so I have actually charged less.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

not true Smoothedge.....read my edited post. It may get harder to buy new equipment to play my discs but I would be able to play from my original manufactures discs as the laws in the USA are written (and most likely would be grandfathered in if the laws were to change in the future).

and just for clarification we have well over a hundred of thousand of dollars invested in music alone almost 20 years.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Smooth, what about planes, trains, and ships. Any one of these is filled with people traveling, going to the same place, yet are charged different rates for "different" packages. Heck, people are charged different rates even if they are on the same package.

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You can be strange but not a stranger