Karaoke Forums

how much will it cost?
how long will it be good for?


the audit method doesnt work either, but you would rather pay $100.00 or more a year to EVERY manu to continue to use the music you already bought and not stop the pirates anyway?


if we do not get the CB audit, will we be sued like SC does?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Why would it bother you if an outside company does it? There are many inventory companies that go into grocery stores, department stores and many, many other operations to conduct inventory. This would be no different.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Sorry to disagree Paradigm but in our area the audit method does work...3 of our highest paying new gigs are directly related to us being certified and the number of pirates drops every time a round of lawsuits are filled (we had to refer out 2 jobs this week that where the venues contacted us and they were too far for us to travel). I can only claim to be an expert on my little part of the world.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

in the Phoenix are it has done the opposite. go into a bar with Cets in hand and be glad to not get hit with something as they chase you out. i am now full up and have to pass off other shows and that happened within 6 weeks of removing all mention of Certs. the number of pirates hasn't changed, just the number of venues who do not want anyone affiliated with SC has gone through the roof.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I would support all manus doing audits, but it would be nice to be able to pay one entity a flat fee to audit the entire collection over 1 manu at a time.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You do realize the Cert Squad doesn't believe you, right?

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Paradigm,
I am sorry that things have worked that way in your area. I guess I am just lucky enough to live in an area where there were enough KJ's willing to take a stand for legality that the backlash that was felt was relatively minor and short lived. I can only imagine how it would be if we were the only ones.

Loneman,
I agree a combined audit would certainly be preferable in my eyes also, maybe the manus will be able to have a meeting of the minds and make that a possibility in the future. HINT HINT

This is the way I see it.

I can proactively request audits from any manu offering them and:
1.Be listed on websites that promote my business to venues looking for legal KJ's
2.Be able to insure that my company AND my venues do not have any issues because I
have received advanced written permission to media-shift.
3.Be able to showcase my integrity improving the way the venue owners see my
business and my company.

Do I like paying for audits ? no...not anymore than I like paying for business licences, liability insurance, taxes or reprinting and replacing books.....but the option of not doing any of the above impacts my business negatively.

Each and every KJ will need to weigh the pros and cons for themselves.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Smoothedge,

I like that "Cert Squad" I think I will adopt that too...you do know that "cheerleaders" was adopted from a similar statement too right ?

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I doubt seriously that this is little more than an opinion, since this scenario has never been done and/or legally challenged, that I know of, and one might consider such an act of collusion...

If that were considered an act of collusion a whole lot of businesses in Florida would be in trouble.... we have whole cities that hire the same company to provide security, multiple banks that hire the same towing companies for removal and repos , many companies that use the same service for running background/credit checks and the list goes on and on. Multiple manus agreeing on audit standards and hiring the same outside company to do audits would not be collusion . I have never been to law school and am not a "consumer advocate" but I do know how to look up legal definitions

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/collusion/

Collusion occurs when two persons or representatives of an entity or organization make an agreement to deceive or mislead another. Such agreements are usually secretive, and involve fraud or gaining an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or others with whom they are negotiating. The collusion, therefore, makes the bargaining process inherently unfair. Collusion can involve price or wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties.

For example, in a divorce action, the husband and wife may agree to fabricate a story or suppress evidence to provide evidence of lawful grounds for a divorce. As another example, collusion may involve cooperation between competing sellers, in the form of an agreement, express or tacit, limiting competition, or a merger or other means to raise the market price above the competitive level.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Ok...seems that part fits. It was stated in the article that all three US manufacturers--I thought there were more--might be in trouble. I do know that three were represented at that Summit thing, so I am not sure how that translates, but bringing all the players together to discuss and strategize how to do things that may result in making things more difficult for consumers has all the makings of collusion activity.

Aahheti, the analogy monster again...

Companies hiring the same company to perform work is not the same as companies conspiring together to dictate the course of an industry, especially if it results in an increased burden on consumers.

I will always maintain that analogies are merely tools for any given side of an issue to support their cause. In other words, they are worthless to general discussions, especially involving an industry which, by its own admission, has so many holes and weak links in its structure, to which perhaps it has no comparison in the US...

Collusion occurs when two persons or representatives of an entity or organization make an agreement to deceive or mislead another. Such agreements are usually secretive, and involve fraud or gaining an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or others with whom they are negotiating. The collusion, therefore, makes the bargaining process inherently unfair. Collusion can involve price or wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties.

Any group of manufactures could easily set a group of standards for Voluntary audits that would be completely transparent, and have no unfair advantage. There would be no price or wage fixing, kickbacks or misrepresentation of anything and it would reduce unfair burden on the consumers not increase it.

And no legally companies hiring the same company is not legally the same as companies conspiring together....again you may wish to make use of a legal dictionary or better yet speak to a licensed attorney.

Just because you do not like a truth does not make it less of a truth.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

You are missing the point that these types of potential acts can be symptomatic of collusion, since there is no direct benefit for any one company from combining to do these audits. Do not be deceived: NO company exists to save you a few dollars and some time. Companies cannot afford to extend themselves to individuals they market to without there being an angle in it for themselves, which is the perfect disguise. No matter how many times it is included in a post, integrity is not infectious...

But, no one has to listen to me...why not hear it from one of the interested parties:

1. Yes I did read and comprehend Gretchen's quote.

2.And you were questioning the validity of my quote. I will paste just the portion you chose to use here again for you and empathize the keywords.

"As far as that goes..all it would take is a contract signed by those who own the rights to have anyone do audits....all the Manus (SC,CB new PR, Stellar, SF,Zoom and even Pioneer,JVC and MM et al ) could have a central agent do audits IF they could all agree on the details."

3."symptomatic of collusion" is not the same as collusion

4. The direct benefit would be to the company doing the auditsThe "angle" would be the audit cost to the sub-contracted company, since the manufactures do not make any money on the audits the benefits to both the manus and the KJ's would be secondary.

I can only wish that integrity is in fact infectious...I know that a sense of entitlement certainly appears to be.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

It wouldn't if the contracting company has some oversight and maybe some standards as far as how the audit is to be conducted. Anytime you contract out an operation of your business, there needs to be some sort of check and balance applied. Otherwise you run the risk of the contracting company going rogue on you like APS did.

Wow Lone Ranger, we agree on this point........will wonders never cease

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I thought that was what you were trying to establish Athena finding some common ground with other hosts?

Having an accredited outside source perform audits is the ONLY way to go. They should have no vested interest in the outcome.

Let's call it the karaoke alliance or something like that....