Karaoke Forums

...I'll take the blame for getting your original topic off course, I apologize. Paradigm Karaoke and others, including myself, would appreciate any answers to the following questions. Thanks!

Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
how much will it cost?
how long will it be good for?

if we do not get the CB audit, will we be sued like SC does?

...Again, I'm sorry:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28290 (Original Topic)

I just wanted to let you know that they are coming. Right now we do not have a set cost. We are still meeting about it all. The Certification will be good for two years. You will have a Certificate to display. You will also be listed on a legal KJ website.

Thanks for the update, Gretchen!

I have to say that I am tired of hearing about "legal KJs". Just because you hold a certificate, doesn't mean there is anything legal about it, or that if you don't hold a certificate you are an illegal KJ. Use the words DTE compliant, or DTE certified. Legal tells people that the KJ is a criminal even if they are not.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I agree completely. By directing people to a website that says, "here is a list of Legal KJs," you are implying that if your name is not on the list, you are not running a show legally. This is one of the misconceptions which SC did in passing out their literature to venues (and hardly made any mention about ODB KJs).

I would like to add, that in stating here is a list of "DTE Compliant KJs," it should be stated clearly what "DTE Compliant" means. It should indicate that if the KJ has any CB/DTE/Karaoke Cloud content, he/she had all of those tracks examined by DTE, and has proven them to be ok for use in a show. DTE should also indicate an acknowledgement that not all KJs use CB/DTE/Karaoke Cloud tracks in their show, and that should have NO BEARING as to whether said KJ is operating legally or not. DTE should also CLEARLY state that just because a KJ is NOT listed on their site, does NOT MEAN they are operating illegally. DTE can then state something about ODB KJs and PC Operated KJs, and what they should be on the lookout for. There's probably a better way to word this, and I'm sure someone can state it a little more simply.

Very good advice!! Hopefully DTE follows it. SC would rather have everyone think that if a KJ is NOT certified with them that they are criminals. Of course for them it is part of their marketing plan. Make it harder for KJs to get shows, so they will get certified, or buy GEMs so they appear to be legal. Pretty shady.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Nowhere on SC website does it state anything other than the kj's listed on their cert page did so of their own accord and licensed GEM owners or prior issues resolved. Nowhere I saw they stated or indicated anyone else not on that site was illegal.

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It's implied by omission. They basically say what Cue said. People don't look past their noses. They shouldn't be left to assume whether or not other non-certified KJs are legal. It's make for an unfair business practice, in some markets. Look at Athena's area. She has worked it so ONLY certified hosts can get work. That isn't fair to those who may not agree with Sound Choice's policies. They may be perfectly legal and safe, but the venue owners don't know that and are afraid to hire them.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Not true Smoothedge....we have 3 ODB hosts and 1 host that has pulled SC/CB and Stellar in out" little group " and we recommend each other to all to venue owners looking for hosts. So stating that we have worked it so only certified hosts can get work is WRONG..I do not care if a host is certified/disc based/or non SC/CB/Stellar users as long as they are NOT pirating.

All venue owners in our area are well educated and aware that disc hosts are perfectly safe and that they do have the option of doing an audit themselves to insure hosts are in 1-1 compliance if they wish to do so.

On a somewhat funny note 1 bar owner DID decide to audit 2 separate KJ's that claimed to be 1-1....the bar owner was very surprised that neither were even close to 1-1 and pissed that he spent 5 hours of his time for nothing.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

,

Then I apologize, and I commend you for doing the right thing. That doesn't let SC off the hook, though. They should be explaining themselves better.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I believe Sound Choice does a very good job of explaining what the people listing on the Certified KJ's page are -

The KJs or Venues listed below (in alphabetical order by state, then city) have successfully completed the VOLUNTARY audit process for Sound Choice®. At the time of certification, the karaoke library presented by the applicant was found to be strictly adherent to the guidelines set forth by Sound Choice® for the use of their intellectual content.

All that opener says is that people VOLUNTARILY completed an audit.

Below is the list of KJ/Hosts who wanted to be posted as being GEM Series Licensees (in alphabetical order by state, then city) who have purchased the entire Sound Choice GEM Series. Please click here for a list of the 6,000 songs included in their GEM Series.

All that paragraph says is "here are the GEM licensees".

The KJs or Venues listed below (in alphabetical order by state, then city) have resolved any prior issues with Sound Choice®.

Self-explanatory.

I have looked at this many times over and the only way I can see people misinterpreting this as "Sound Choice implies you are illegal if you aren't on this list" is if your mind is already made up that it means that. Any reasonable person will understand exactly what that page is meant to convey.

-Chris

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-Chris

And we go back full circle to 3 years ago... again.

I agree that there is nothing shady about the listings on that page which you pointed out. BUT, who is directing the (potential) hiring venues to go look at that URL with the KJ listings? And, what are they saying when they direct you to look it up? What are they NOT saying when they tell you to look it up?

Cueball may have a point....an unscrupulous host could spin the issue and mislead the venue owners.....much like those who tell venues they don't have to pay all the alphabets. However IF the venue owner does what they are supposed to do an verify the truth does become clear.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

....and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about what is said by the people pointing to the page.

-Chris

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-Chris

I'm not just referring to unscrupulous hosts. I am ALSO referring to the Manufacturer directly. By telling a Venue that they must hire legitimate/legal hosts, and then by directing them to look at the URL provided with a list of those KJs, it is NOT telling them all the proper information. And most of what the Manufacturer emphasizes is about PC Operated KJs. Then, by adding an, "oh by the way, ODB KJs fall into a totally different class," while still emphasizing one to check their list of legally operated KJs, makes it more of an afterthought (and it doesn't really register in one's mind when most of the focus is placed on the PC Operated KJ).

See Athena... even you automatically jumped to a conclusion that it could be some "unscrupulous" host that could spread the word and put the wrong idea in a Venue Manager's mind. You seem to have conveniently left out (or omitted) the possibilities about how a Manufacture may be emphasizing their website page to the Venue. And Chris, you're just as guilty of this (in your post above), because you presented a generalized point which mentions you can't control what people say or don't say, but left that statement rather vague as to which people you might be referring to. Omitting the detail that it could be a Manufacturer, is almost like the Manufacture saying, "Go look at my web page, and you will see a list of who is safe for you to hire" (I'm not listed on that web page. Does that mean I am not safe to be hired?????).

again... full circle back to 3 years ago (like we ever stopped repeating ourselves in all of that time)... Didn't this horse die 10 times over and reincarnate to a higher being yet?

I was not intentionally vague, nor did I omit anything. I carefully typed exactly what I typed.

But let's be transparent....

No one but Sound Choice can do anything about how Sound Choice frames that page.

With all due respect, Cue, you have been stomping your feet about this issue for a long while now. I would give your argument some credibility if you actually had a horse in the game. To the best of my knowledge you still only run a handful of karaoke programs a year. To the best of my knowledge, you are not running a karaoke business. To the best of my knowledge, you do not derive any significant income from karaoke. To the best of my knowledge, you aren't impacted in the slightest by any of this anyway because you are an ODB host.

More importantly, you are stomping your feet at the wrong people. If you don't like the page and how Sound Choice portrays it, then take it up with Sound Choice. With the exception of Mr. Harrington, there is absolutely no one on these forums that can do anything about what you are complaining about and given that James hasn't proctored a change in the past two years, it seems to me you need to take it up directly with Kurt.

-Chris

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-Chris

Spoken like a true Politician. And that makes you even guiltier of what I said. You intentionally chose your words in such a way, that it deflected away from one entity and left it open for one to assume a completely different meaning. I forgot now... which Office did you say you were running for?


And, with all due respect to you as well, my status in the KJ world has no bearing on my argument... which, by the way, you give credit to. Trying to lessen what I had to say by making me sound insignificant, rather than to defend your own point, was just a weak tactic meant to deflect away from the point I made.

Now this I can totally agree with. And since these viewpoints have been stated many times, AND it has also been noted that Kurt DOES INDEED read these forums and has seen what we have had to say (and what he hasn't read, I'd be willing to guess that James has filled him in on a lot), it's obvious that that would be a wasted effort.

Hey Cue, are just going to let Chris call you an Old Dirty Bastard Host??? I think you should throw an egg cream at him!!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Cueball,
I do not feel I jumped to any conclusion. I was trying to see things from your veiwpoint and trying to see your concern. I personally feel that the website is VERY well setup up and self explanatory if a venue bothers to read it....however I was also stating that an deceptive host could mislead and color the venues perception...IF the venue owner did not bother to READ the website.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

You have trust issues. You think that noncertified KJs are out to fleece Venue owners. When I interviewed for the place I am at now, I told the owner, point blank that I own all my discs, and that I would be willing to show them to her. She didn't even care. She said that wouldn't be necessary.

But if you read the Sound Choice website, it certainly DOES look like they are saying that if a KJ isn't certified they are illegal. That just isn't true. The venue I am at has nothing to worry about because I am 1:1 on everything, except Sound Choice. I play them on discs, as much as I hate it, (because they ARE getting old). But I am JUST as legal as the next guy. Sound Choice is trying to get as many KJs to either certify or buy they GEMS by making fear lack of work, or fear lawsuits. It's wrong, it's despicable, it's dirty, and it's unfair business tactics, IMHO.

BTW, I STILL have no one asking for SC or CB, and we have some REALLY good singer at this gig.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE