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It is quite apparent that the way this legal process has been fashioned by CB/WWD/PR/DTE is to force the sued host to settle out of court. There is no opportunity to have and audit since no auditing system is in place. The only options are one to ignore the suit and lose by default, two spend thousands of dollars to a lawyer to fight what might be a bogus lawsuit that is nothing more the a legal fishing expedition. This is to achieve the maximum effect, and convince all non signed up hosts to buy the cheaper insurance policy, subscribe to Cloud at $99.00 a month for the rest of your karaoke hosting life.

You do understand a Default Judgement is only entered if the person fails to show up. All he or his lawyer has to do is to answer, then a Discovery is set up at which time the discs are produced and the matter is ended. I'm not sure why he is in last minute panic as one normally has about 30 days to answer after being served.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Isn't that what Lone Ranger just said? Unless I missed something, would you show up to court if you were ignoring the suit?



Getting that Lawyer will cost him money... money that he should not have had to spend in the first place. And, it ain't cheap to get a Lawyer.

Sounds to me like he did everything to respond back, and has gotten no answer. Now he was FORCED to shell out money for a Lawyer... And as I stated before, money he should NOT have had to spend.

To me, the last minute panic is wondering HOW MUCH MORE is this GOING TO COST?!

So tell me tim he produces the discs at discovery that covers him for the content of the show, maybe since I don't know how they will determine if everything is in order with no proper auditing system in place. What about the other end of the suit the shifting of material without permission, if that can be proved then what, is he still subject to further action?

well I think we are off on a premature jaunt...neither of the 2 KJ's (that contacted me) involved in the PR cases were even given a settlement option. This differs greatly from the SC cases where settlement is discussed right off the bat. Also PR has never stated that they will automatically drop cases if you prove you are 1-1 so the media shift alone allows them to legally continue the lawsuit.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

In federal court, as this is, it's 21 days from the date of service. However, it is customary for the plaintiff's attorney to consent to an extension of 30 days, and that can be done informally (without an actual filing with the court). Most judges will enter up to 30 days' extension on the defendant's request even over the plaintiff's objection. Default will not be entered until the plaintiff requests it, and it cannot be entered after an answer is filed even if the answer was late.

If a defendant contacts me to request a 30-day extension, I offer it informally. If the defendant wants something on paper, I will offer to file a document that states that we have agreed to a 30-day extension for filing, and send him a file-stamped copy. I don't routinely ask for default until 51 days have passed after service; the exception is when the defendant indicates, to me or to others, that he does not intend to defend the suit--or I have express instructions from my client not to wait that long.

Most attorneys I have met have this policy as well. It is considered bad form to seek default on the first day, and it is fairly easy to get a judge to vacate a default if you act promptly after it was entered.

There is no need for panic, nor is there usually a need to retain an attorney just because the 21-day period is nearing its end. Of course, it is always a good idea to get advice from counsel when dealing with a lawsuit.

So in other words Athena PR/WWD are out to make examples and are really not interested in making settlements. They are going to push this all the way, that might be dangerous for them if the suits go against them. It would be nice however not have a settlement but rather have some case law finally put on the books one way or another. So they are taking a hard line, well suits do drive sales, right?

It is possible settlement offers may be given as an option at some point...I do not know. All I can say based upon information from the KJ's that have communicated with me is that none have been offered to them at this point.

PR may end up making SC look like the good guys if they take the hard line. SC could take the hardline and not drop anyone who does show 1-1 based on the media shift alone...SC could not offer settlement till late in the legal process....SC could sue on copyright and trademark basis increasing judgment amounts....They have chosen to not do any of the above.

I just have to ask...what sales do you think PR could be trying to drive? Unlike SC they have no product to sell.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Do you seriously believe that they have no product they are promoting Athena? They are closely attached to DTE, so closely that if a host subscribes they will be taken off the hit list. You do remember the summit where all pirates will be welcome back if they hop on the Cloud? All these suits are designed to to is to drive hosts to the cloud. That is the reason there are no audits offered, they want everyone using the service or they get served, get it. Making SC look mild is like getting to the right of Rush Limbaugh.

to the right of Rush

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Wouldn't there be something illegal about that? How can a company be allowed to file suit to draw people in to use their service, or buy their product?? You want to talk about unfair business practices??? Yikes!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Actually it is nothing new historically to tie up a business in court in order to compel them to do something they otherwise would not do. Westinghouse held all the patents for AC, J.P. Morgan wanted to get control of the early electric industry. He threatened to tie up Westinghouse in court for years with bogus lawsuits, something Westinghouse could not afford. Morgan managed to pressure Westinghouse into signing the patents over to his company General Electric. It is part of the the corporate bag of tricks.

The KJ in question seems to be free and open with his attempts to get audited, giving me the impression that he was named unjustly. Were I him, as a now damaged party, I would investigate the possibility of retaliatory class action suit.

I think he would find takers both as signees ( others who have had to deal with similar actions) and attorneys willing to work for a percentage ( which could represent a goodly sum), given the use of previous court proceedings and judges' comments and legal precedent.

Of course, I am not an attorney. However, I would encourage the KJ to check with those who are. I believe it would be to his benefit, and if not, it wouldn't do any damage. Worth looking into...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Forcing the KJ business into being disc based only, or subscribed in a cloud service or the like, in order to stop any digital copying of tracks that may be distributed illegally perhaps?

Thank you pirates!

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-- Mark

I thought you were their buddy Insane does that mean they are going to force your also? After all the water you have carried for them, what ingrates. Don't put all the blame on the pirates, a great deal of this has to do with good old fashioned greed on the part of the manus. They are methodically trying to corner the karaoke music supply side of the equation.

I agree that the KJ in question does seem to be open and free in requesting an audit, and even (personally ) think he may own his discs in a 1-1 basis.

The problem with your suggestion to pursue retaliatory legal action fails within the fact that legally no manu (PR nor SC) has to allow media shifting .Numerous Federal Judges have found that media shifting alone IS legally actionable.

Another problem with bringing ANY lawsuit is you must show legal proof you were financially damaged by someones illegal action. It is a good idea to have a solid understanding of what constitutes "legal proof of financial damage" and "illegal action" as those terms are not defined as common sense would imply.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

In a class action suit you need a certain amount of people, aggrieved in the same way. The aggrievement is usually serious in nature. Usually they are started by a law firm (or a few person who go to a law firm) who will send out advertisements to see if there are anymore Complainants. Then the law firm has to decide if it is worth their while to pursue it. I'm not sure how it is in the US but in Canada a judge has to approve if a class action suit can go forward. These are some pretty big hurdles to get past and quite frankly I don't see a law firm doing so, but hey you never know.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I would LOVE to see it happen. It would be nice for all this crap to go away, and all the worries, and all the questions of is this the right thing to do, or is THIS the right thing to do? There shouldn't be any stress in Karaoke. And you shouldn't have to jump through hoops and deal with inspectors all this other nonsense that is going on.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

That is the problem isn't it showing to the degree manus were damaged financially by both shifting and the theft of the original product. In the Panama City suits in regards to the theft of the original material the judge determined that the fair retail value of the product was the limit of liability or $5,000.00 per defendant. This limit was upheld after appeal of the awards by James. This theme seems to have been repeated in California with the cookie cutter out of court settlements achieved again $5,000.00 per defendant. Now in the case of the actual shifting it would seem it would be much harder for the manu to prove financial damage since the original product was legally purchased, and therefore the manu was not financially damaged. While shifting of material without permission might be illegal what kind of financial damage was inflicted upon the plaintiff? These are civil suits not criminal cases, the purpose of which is to recover money not paid to the manu for the product. Well the product has indeed been paid for originally so just where is the financial damage?

this has been my thinking as well and a question i have posed from the start of all of this....
this KJ, if 1:1 as he claims, has caused what financial damage to PRLLC?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens